The answere vnto the nine points of controuersy, proposed by our late soueraygne (of famous memory) vnto M. Fisher of the Society of Iesus And the reioynder vnto the reply of D. Francis VVhite minister. With the picture of the sayd minister, or censure of his writings prefixed.

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Title
The answere vnto the nine points of controuersy, proposed by our late soueraygne (of famous memory) vnto M. Fisher of the Society of Iesus And the reioynder vnto the reply of D. Francis VVhite minister. With the picture of the sayd minister, or censure of his writings prefixed.
Author
Fisher, John, 1569-1641.
Publication
[Saint-Omer :: English College Press] Permissu superiorum,
M.DC.XXVI. [1626]
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Subject terms
White, Francis, 1564?-1638. -- Replie to Jesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propounded by King James.
Catholic Church -- Apologetic works.
Link to this Item
http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A00793.0001.001
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"The answere vnto the nine points of controuersy, proposed by our late soueraygne (of famous memory) vnto M. Fisher of the Society of Iesus And the reioynder vnto the reply of D. Francis VVhite minister. With the picture of the sayd minister, or censure of his writings prefixed." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A00793.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed May 13, 2025.

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A fifth Example, About Satisfaction. §. 5.

I will produce yet another Example of your Ig∣norance, by which you contradict Protestants, yea your selfe in the very same page, and establish our Catholike doctrine of Satisfaction and Purgatory, against which in that place you earnestly dispute. Thus you wite pag. 540. The difference betweene the Pontificiās & vs in this dostrin is, THAT WE BELEEVE A REMAINDER of TEMPORALL Affliction, AFTER

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the REMISSION of the GVILTE of Sinne, in this life onely, for Chastisement, ERVDITION, and PRO∣BATION. They maintaine a Remainder of Temporall Pu∣nishement, not onely in this life, but after the same in Pur∣gatory. Further, we beleeue, that the Paine of Chastise∣ment inflicted vpon penitent sinners, may by prayers of fayth, exercise of vertue, humiliation and mortification be REMOVED, MITIGATED, or conuerted to the increa∣se of grace and glory in them, that with patience & holines endure the same in this life. But we deny, that eyther any paine followeth iust persons after their decease, or that they can in this life by any good workes, merit release of any tem∣porall punishment, or satisfy the Diuine Iustice for the fault, or guilt of any sinnes on their behalfe, much lesse for others.

Thus you▪ On the one side denying, against Ca∣tholikes, Temporall Paine in the next life, and on the other, granting against Protestāts a Remaynder of Temporall Chastisement, for sinne remitted after the remission of the guilt. Wherby you contradict your selfe, yea establish the possibillity of superaboū∣dant Satisfaction. Yow lay Principles which vnans∣werably inforce temporall paine for remisse Peni∣tents in the next world; Which three thinges I will in order demonstrate, that so it may appeare, that through Ignorance you haue your selfe dissolued & broken in peeces the whole frame of your Volumi∣nous Reply, in euery poynt of Controuersy proposed by his Maiesty, and handled therein.

First, you contradict your selfe; for in this very pag. 540. against the Remainder of temporall paine thus you write: That which is so forgiuen that after pardon it is not mentioned or remembred, and which is cast

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behind Gods backe, & throwne into the bottome of the sea, and which can no where be found, and which is blotted out of the Debt-booke of the Almighty, is not taken away by commutation of a greater punishment into a lesser, but by a free and full condonation of all vindictiue punishment. But the holy Scripture, and the Fathers teach such a remis∣sion of sinne on Gods part to the penitent. Thus you: what cleerer contradiction can be deuised then is betwee∣ne these two sentences, Remission of sinne is made not by commutation of a greater punishment into a lesse, but by free and full condonation of all vindi∣ctiue punishment: &, There is a remainder of temporall paine after the remission of guilt of sinne, not onely for the triall and erudition of the penitent, but also for Chastisement, which may be remoued, or mitigated by mortification and penitentiall workes? What clea∣rer contradiction, I say, can be deuised? For tēporall paine inflicted vpon penitent sinners by way of cha∣stisement after the remission of the guilt of their sin∣ne, is vindictiue Punishment. You professe in the end of this page to belieue Temporall paine to remaine, not onely by way of Probation and Erudition, but euen by way of chastisement, after the remission of the guilt of their sinne: Therfore you contradict what you say in the beginning of this page, That remission of sinne is free, and full condonation of all vindictiue punishment.

Agayne; Condonation of sinne, wherby eter∣nall punishment is changed into temporall, is remis∣sion of sinne, by commutation of a greater chastise∣mēt into a lesse, to wit, of eternall into temporall, as is most euident. But in the end of this page, you teach, that sinne is so remitted, as the guilt of sinne, and eternall Damnation is changed into a remainder of

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temporall affliction for chastisement of the penitent sinner. Wherefore, if the changing of Eternall punishment into Temporall be commutation of greater punish∣ment into lesse; then by granting, in the end of the cited page, a Remaynder of Temporall Affliction, after the remission of the Eternall, you ouerthrow what you taught in the beginning of the same, that remission of sinne is not made by commutation of greater punishment into lesse.

Secondly, this your doctrine of the remainder of temporall paine, after the remission of the guilt of sinne, proueth that penitent saints may make compēsant, yea superaboundant satisfaction, in manner as Ca∣tholikes teach; for in the remainder of temporall affliction we may consider, and distinguish two things; the greatnes of the paine reserued, and the greatnes of Gods remaining anger against sinne re∣mitted, which he doth yet temporally punish. If we regard the greatnes of Gods iust anger and offence, we hold (t) 1.1 that no compensant, or equall satisfa∣ction is made in this respect, the offence hauing a kind of infinity from the infinite maiesty of the per∣son offended. But if we regard the greatnes of the penalty reserued, a man may remoue the same by sa∣tisfaction compensant, yea superaboundant. This may be made euident by examples. Let vs suppose the remainder of Temporall affliction reserued, be equall vnto the paine of forty dayes fast in bread & water in one whole yeare, why may not a iust man fast in this manner forty dayes in a yeare, & so offer vnto God satisfaction iust & equall? Also why may he not fast fifty dayes in a yeare with onely bread and water, & so offer satisfaction superaboundant?

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Superaboundant, I say, not in respect of the Maiesty of God offended, but in respect of the temporall re∣serued punishment: So that granting, as you do, a temporall remainder of chastisement after the re∣mission of sinne, to be remoued or mitigated by pe∣nitentiall workes, if you be in your right iudgment, and ponder the matter, you cannot deny (as you do) that compensant and superaboundant satisfaction may be made for the same.

Thirdly, this your doctrine doth euidently in∣force Temporall and Purgatory paines in the next life. This I proue. Vnto sinnes of equall offence and heynousmes against God, remitted by the same mea∣sure of faith and contrition, the same punishment is due in iustice, after the remission of the guilt. For God being iust, doth neuer punish sinne remitted with more or longer affliction then it deserues: Go forbid (sayth (u) 1.2 Iob) that there should be impiety in God, or iniquity in the Almighty. For he will repay vnto man his owne worke, and render vnto euery one according to their wayes: nor in punishing the remitted sinnes of his seruants is he an acceptour of persons. Hence vnto euery sinne, as great as Dauids, remitted vpon no greater contrition then had Dauid, as great tempo∣rall punishment is in iustice due, & shallbe inflicted▪ as was inflicted vpon Dauid for his remitted sinne▪ This being euident, I assume: But we see innumera∣ble penitent men who haue committed greater sin∣nes then Dauid, and yet haue not had greater, nor so great measure of faith, nor of sorrow and contrition for their sinnes as had Dauid, that dye presently afte their repentance, without enduring eyther by Di∣uine infliction, or by voluntary assumption, such

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grieuous temporall afflictions, as Dauid did: Ther∣fore innumerable penitent Saints depart this life, being obnoxious vnto as great, or greater punish∣ment, after the remission of their sinns, as Dauid did endure after the remissiō of his. This supposed what shall become of these men? They cannot go to hell, the guilt of sin, & of eternall damnation being gra∣tiously remitted vnto them. They (x) 1.3 cannot go pre∣sently to heauen, for no stained thing, that is, no per∣son vnto whome punishment is due in iustice, can enter into that seate of pure Reward, Ioy & Felicity· Wherfore, seing you say, that vnto sinne remitted a certaine measure of temporall paine is due, to be re∣moued or mitigated by workes of mortification, it is forcible, that you also admit temporall Purgatory-paines in the next life, for them that dy before this debt of temporall chastisement be satisfyed in this world.

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