Tvvo histories of Ireland. The one written by Edmund Campion, the other by Meredith Hanmer Dr of Divinity

A VIEVV OF THE STATE OF IRELAND, Written Dialogue-wise betweene Eudoxus and Irenaeus, By Edmund Spenser Esq. in the yeare 1596.

Eudox.

BVT if that Countrey of Ireland, whence you lately came, bee of so goodly and commodious a soyle as you report, I wonder that no course is taken for the turning thereof to good uses, and redu∣cing that nation to better government and civility.

Iren.

Marry so there have bin divers good plottes devised, & wise Councels cast already about reformation of that Realme, but they say, it is the fatall destiny of that Land, that no purposes whatsoever which are meant for her good, wil prosper or take good effect, which whether it proceed from the very Genius of the soyle, or influence of the starres, or that almighty God hath not yet appointed the time of her reformation, or that hee reserveth her in this unquiet state still, for some secret scourge, which shall by her come unto England, it is hard to be knowne, but yet much to be feared.

Eudox.

Surely I suppose this but a vaine conceipt of simple men, which judge things by their effects, and not by their causes; for I would rather thinke the cause of this evill, which hangeth upon that Countrey, to proceed rather of the unsoundnes of the Councels, and plots which you say have bin oftentimes laid for the reformation, or of faintnes in following & effecting the same, then of any such fatall course appointed of God, as you misdeeme, but it is the manner of men, that when they are fallen into any absurdity, or their actions succeede not as they would, they are alwayes readie to impute the

blame thereof unto the Heavens, so to excuse their owne follies and imperfections. So have I heard it often wished also, (even of some whose great wisedomes in opinion should seeme to judge more soundly of so weighty a consideration) that all that land were a Sea poole: which kinde of speech, is the manner rather of desperate men farre driven, to wish the utter ruine of that which they cannot redress, then of grave Councellors, which ought to thinke nothing so hard but that thorough wisedome, it may bee mastered and subdued, since the Poet saith, that the wiseman shall rule even over the Starres, much more over the Earth, for were it not the part of a desperate Phisitian to wish his diseased Patient dead, rather then to apply the best indea∣vour of his skill, for his recovery. But since we are so farre entred, let us, I pray you, a little devise of those evils, by which that country is held in this wretched case, that it cannot (as you say) be recured. And if it be not painefull to you, tell us what things during your late con∣tinuance there, you observed to bee most offensive, and greatest im∣peachment to the good rule and government thereof.

Iren.

Surely Eudox. the evils which you desire to be recounted are very many, & almost countable with those which were hidden in the basket of Pandora. But since you please I will out of that infinite num∣ber, reckon but some that are most capitall, & commonly occurrant both in the life & conditions of private men, as also in the managing of publicke affaires and pollicy, the which you shall understand to be of divers natures, as I observed them: For some of them are of verie great antiquity and continuance; others more late and of lesse indu∣rance; others dayly growing and increasing continuallie by their e∣vill occasions, which are every day offered.

Eudox.

Tell them then, I pray you, in the same order that you haue now rehearsed thē, for there can be no better method then this which the very matter it selfe offereth. And when you have reckoned all the evils, let us heare your opinion for the redressing of thē: After which there will perhaps of it selfe appeare some reasonable way to settle a sound and perfect rule of government, by shunning the former evils, and following the offered good. The which method we may learne of the wise Phisitians, which first require that the malady be knowne throughly, and discovered: Afterwards to teach how to cure and re∣dresse it: And lastly doe prescribe a dyet with straight rule and orders to be dayly observed, for feare of relapse into the former disease, or falling into some other more dangerous then it.

Iren:

I will then according to your advisement begin to declare the evils, which seeme to me, most hurtfull to the common-weale of that land; And first those (I say) which were most auncient and long growne. And they also are of three sorts: The first in the Lawes, the second in Customes, and the last in Religion.

Eudox.

Why Irenaus can there be any evill in the lawes, can things which are ordained for the good and safety of all, turne to the evill and hurt of them? This well I wore both in that State, and in all

other, that were they not contained in duty with feare of law, which restraineth offences, and inflicteth sharpe punishment to misdoers, no man should enjoy any thing; every mans hand would be against an o∣ther. Therfore in finding fault with the Lawes, I doubt me, you shall much over-shoote your selfe, and make me the more dislike your o∣ther dislikes of that government.

Iren.

The Lawes Eudox. I doe not blame for themselves, know∣ing right well that all Lawes are ordained for the good of the com∣mon-weale, and for repressing of licentiousnesse and vice, but it fal∣leth out in Lawes, no otherwise then it doth in Physick, which was at first devised, and is yet daylie ment, and ministred for the health of the Patient. But neverthelesse we often see, that either thorough ignorance of the disease, or thorough unseasonablenesse of the time, or other accidents comming betweene, in stead of good, it worketh hurt, and out of one evill, throweth the Patient into many miseries. So the Lawes were at first intended for the reformation of abuses, and peaceable continuance of the Subiect; but are sithence ei∣ther disanulled, or quite prevaricated thorough change and alterati∣on of times, yet are they good still in themselves, but in that commō-wealth which is ruled by them, they worke not that good which they should, and sometimes also that evill which they would not.

Eudox.

Whether doe you meane this by the Common-Lawes of that Realme, or by the Statute Lawes, and Acts of Parliaments.

Iren.

Surely by them both: for even the Common law being that which William of Normandy brought in with his conquest, and laid u∣pon the neck of England, though perhaps it fitted well with the state of England then being, and was readily obeyed thorough the power of the Commander, which had before subdued the people unto him, & made easie way to the setling of his will, yet with the state of Ire∣land peradventure it doth not so well agree, being a people very stubborne and untamed, or if it were ever tamed, yet now lately having quite shooken off their yoake, & broken the bonds of their o∣bedience. For England (before the entrance of the Conqueror) was a peaceable Kingdome, and but lately inured to the milde and goodly government of Edward surnamed the Confessor, besides now lately growne into a loathing and detestation of the unjust and tyrannous rule of Harold an usurper, which made them the more willing to ac∣cept of any reasonable conditiōs, & order of the new victor, thinking surely that it could be no worse then the latter, and hoping well it would be as good as the former, yet what the proofe of first bringing in & establishing of those lawes was, was to many full bitterly made knowne. But with Ireland it is farre otherwise, for it is a Nation ever acquainted with warres, though but amongst themselves, & in their owne kinde of military discipline, trayned up ever from their youthes, which they have never yet beene taught to lay aside, nor made to learne obedience unto Lawes, scarcely to know the name of Law, but in stead thereof have alwayes preserved and

kept their owne Law, which is the Brehon Law.

Eudox.

What is that which you call the Brehon law, it is a word unto us altogether unknowne?

Iren.

It is a rule of right unwritten, but delivered by tradition from one to another, in which oftentimes there appeareth great shew of e∣quity, in determining the right betweene party and party, but in ma∣ny things repugning quite both to Gods Law, and mans: As for ex∣ample in the case of murder, the Brehon, that is their judge, will com∣pound betweene the murderer, and the friends of the party murdered which prosecute the action, that the malefactor shall give unto them, or to the child, or wife of him that is slain, a recompence, which they call an Eriach: By which vilde law of theirs, many murders amongst them are made up, and smothered. And this Iudge being as hee is called the Lords Brehon, adjudgeth for the most part, a better share unto his Lord, that is the Lord of the soyle, or the head of that Sept, and also unto himselfe for his judgement a greater portion, then unto the Plantiffes or parties greived.

Eudox.

This is a most wicked law indeed: But I trust it is not now used in Ireland, since the Kings of England have had the absolute do∣minion thereof, and established their owne Lawes there.

Iren.

Yes truly, for there be many wide countries in Ireland which the lawes of England were never established in, nor any acknowledg∣ment of subjection made, & also even in those which are subdued; & seeme to acknowledge subjection, yet the same Brehon law is practi∣sed among themselues, by reason, that dwelling as they doe, whole nations and septs of the Irish together, without any Englishman a∣mongst them, they may doe what they list, and compound or altoge∣ther conceale amongst themselves their owne crimes, of which no notice can be had, by them which would and might amend the same, by the rule of the Lawes of England.

Eudox.

What is this which you say? And is there any part of that Realme or any Nation therein, which have not yet beene subdued to the Crowne of England? Did not the whole Realme universally ac∣cept and acknowledge our late Prince of famous memory Henry the Viii^th for their onely King and Leige Lord?

Iren.

Yes verily: in a Parliament holden in the time of Sir Antho∣ny Saint-Leger then Lord Deputy, all the Irish Lords and principall men came in, and being by faire meanes wrought thereunto, ac∣knowledged King Henry for their Soveraigne Lord, reserving yet (as some say) unto themselves all their owne former priviledges and Seignories inviolate.

Eudox.

Then by that acceptance of his Soveraignty they also ac∣cepted of his lawes. Why then should any other lawes be now used amongst them?

Iren.

True it is that thereby they bound themselves to his lawes & obedience, and in case it had beene followed upon them, as it should have beene, and a government thereupon setled among them

agreeable thereunto, they should have beene reduced to perpetuall civilitie, and contained in continuall dutie. But what bootes it to breake a Colte, and to let him straight runne loose at randome. So were these people at first well handled, and wisely brought to acknowledge allegiance to the Kings of England: but being straight left unto themselves and their owne inordinate life and manners, they eftsoones forgot what before they were taught, and so soone as they were out of sight, by themselves shooke off their bridles, and beganne to colte anew, more licentiously then before.

Eudox.

It is a great pittie, that so good an oportunity was omit∣ted, and so happie an occasion fore-slacked, that might have beene the eternall good of the Land. But doe they not still acknowledge that submission?

Iren.

No, they doe not: for now the heires and posterity of them which yeelded the same, are (as they say) either ignorant thereof, or doe wilfully deny, or stedfastly disavow it.

Eudox.

How can they so doe justly? Doth not the act of the Pa∣rent in any lawfull graunt or conveyance, bind their heires for ever thereunto? Sith then the Auncestors of those that now live, yeelded themselves then subjects and Liegemen, shall it not tye their Chil∣dren to the same subiection?

Iren.

They say no: for their Auncestours had no estate in any their Lands, Seigniories, or Hereditaments, longer then during their own lifes, as they alledge, for all the Irish doe hold their Land by Ta∣nistrie; which is (say they) no more but a personall estate for his life time, that is, Tanist, by reason that he is admitted thereunto by ele∣ction of the Countrey.

Eudox.

What is this which you call Tanist and Tanistry? They be names and termes never heard of nor knowne to us.

Iren.

It is a custome amongst all the Irish, that presently after the death of any of their chiefe Lords or Captaines, they doe presently assemble themselves to a place generally appointed & knowne unto them to choose another in his steed, where they doe nominate and e∣lect for the most part, not the eldest sonne, nor any of the children of the Lord deceased, but the next to him of blood, that is the eldest & worthiest, as commonly the next brother unto him if he have any, or the next cousin, or so forth, as any is elder in that kinred or sept, and then next to him doe they choose the next of the blood to be Tanist, who shall next succeed him in the said Captainry, if he live therunto.

Eudox.

Doe they not use any ceremony in this election? for all barbarous nations are commonly great observers of ceremonies and superstitious rites.

Iren.

They vse to place him that shalbe their Captaine, upon a stone alwayes reserved for that purpose, & placed commonly upon a hill. In some of which I have seen formed & ingraven a foot, which they say was the measure of their first Captaines foot, whereon hee standing, receive an oath to preserve all the auncient former cu∣stomes

of the Countrey inviolable, and to deliver up the succession peaceably to his Tanist, and then hath a wand delivered unto him by some whose proper office that is: after which, descending from the stone, he turneth himselfe round, thrice forward, & thrice backward.

Eudox.

But how is the Tanist chosen?

Iren.

They say he setteth but one foot upon the stone, and re∣ceiveth the like oath that the Captaine did.

Eudox.

Have you ever heard what was the occasion and first be∣ginning of this custome? for it is good to know the same, and may perhaps discover some secret meaning and intent therein, very mate∣riall to the state of that government.

Iren.

I have heard that the beginning & cause of this ordinance amongst the Irish, was specially for the defence and maintenance of their Lands in their posteritie, and for excluding all innovation or a∣lienation thereof unto strangers, and specially to the English. For when their Captaine dieth, if the Signiorie should descend to his child, & he perhaps an Infant, another peradventure step in between, or thrust him out by strong hand, being then unable to defend his right, or to withstand the force of a forreiner, and therfore they doe appoint the eldest of the kinne to have the Signiorie, for that he com∣monly is a man of stronger yeares, and better experience to maintain the inheritance, and to defend the Countrey, either against the next bordering Lords, which use commonly to incroach one upon ano∣ther, as each one is stronger, or against the English, which they thinke lye still in waite to wype them out of their Lands and Territoryes. And to this end the Tanist is alwayes ready knowne, if it should hap∣pen the Captaine suddenly to dye, or to be slaine in battell, or to be out of the Countrey, to defend and keepe it from all such doubts and dangers. For which cause the Tanist hath also a share of the Country allotted unto him, and certaine cuttings and spendings upon all the inhabitants under the Lord.

Eudox.

When I heard this word Tanist, it bringeth to my re∣membrance what I have read of Tania, that it should signifie a Pro∣vince or Seigniorie, as Aquitania, Lusitania, and Britania, the which some thinke to be derived of Dania, that is, from the Danes, but, I thinke, amisse. But sure it seemeth, that it came anciently from those barbarous nations that over-ranne the world, which possessed those Dominions, whereof they are now so called. And so it may well be that from thence the first originall of this word Tanist and Tani∣stry came, and the custome thereof hath sithence, as many others els, beene continued, But to that generall subjection of the Land, whereof wee formerly spake, me seemes that this custome or tenure can be no barre nor impeachment, seeing that in open Parliament by their said acknowledgment they waved the benefite thereof, and submitted themselves to the benefite of their new Sove∣raigne.

Iren.

Yea but they say as I earst tolde you, that they reserved

their titles, tenures and Seigniories whole and sound to themselves, and for proofe alledge, that they have ever sithence remained to them untouched, so as now to alter them, should (say they) be a great wrong.

Eudox.

What remedie is there then, or meanes to avoide this inconvenience? for without first cutting of this dangerous custome, it seemeth hard to plant any sound ordenance, or reduce them to a ci∣vill government, since all their ill customes are permitted unto them.

Iren.

Surely nothing hard: for by this Act of Parliament where∣of wee speake, nothing was given to K. Henry which he had not be∣fore from his Auncestors, but onely the bare name of a King, for all other absolute power of principality he had in himselfe before deri∣ved from many former Kings, his famous Progenitours and worthy Conquerors of that Land. The which sithence they first conquered and by force subdued unto them, what needed afterwards to enter into any such idle termes with them to be called their King, when it is in the power of the Conqueror to take upon himself what title he will, over his Dominions conquered. For all is the Conque∣rours, as Tully to Brutus faith. Therefore (me seemes) instead of so great and meritorious a service as they boast they performed to the King, in bringing all the Irish to acknowledge him for their Liege, they did great hurt unto his Title, and have left a perpetuall gall in the minde of the people, who before being absolutely bound to his obedience, are now tyed but with termes, whereas else both their lives, their lands, and their liberties were in his free power to appoint what tenures, what lawes, what conditions hee would over them, which were all his: against which there could be no rightfull resistance, or if there were, he might when he would establish them with a stronger hand.

Eudox.

Yea but perhaps it seemed better unto that noble King to bring them by their owne accord to his obedience, and to plant a peaceable government amongst them, then by such violent means to pluck them under. Neither yet hath he therby lost any thing that he formerly had, for having all before absolutely in his owne power, it remaineth so still unto him, he having thereby neither forgiven, nor forgone any thing thereby unto them, but having received somthing from them, that is a more voluntary and loyall subjection. So as her Majesty may yet when it shall please her, alter any thing of those for∣mer ordinances, or appoint other lawes, that may be more both for her owne behoofe, and for the good of that people.

Iren.

Not so: for it is not so easie, now that things are growne unto an habit, and have their certaine course to change the channell, & turne their streames another way; for they may have now a colo∣rable pretence to withstand such innovations, having accepted of o∣ther lawes and rules already.

Eudox.

But you say they do not accept of them, but delight rather to leane to their old customes & Brehon lawes, though they be more

unjust and also more inconvenient for the common people, as by your late relation of them I have gathered. As for the lawes of England they are surely most just and most agreeable, both with the govern∣ment and with the nature of the people. How falls it then that you seeme to dislike of them, as not so meete for that Realme of Ireland, and not onely the Common Law, but also the Statutes and Actes of Parliament, which were specially provided and intended for the on∣lie benefit thereof?

Iren.

I was about to have told you my reason therein, but that your selfe drewe me away with other questions, for I was shewing you by what meanes, and by what sort, the Positive Lawes, were first brought in and established by the Norman Conquerour: which were not by him devised nor applyed unto the state of the Realme then be∣ing, nor as yet might best be (as should by Lawgivers principally be regarded) but were indeed the very Lawes of his owne Countrey of Normandie. The condition whereof, how farre it differeth from this of England, is apparant to every least judgement. But to transferre the same lawes for the governing of the Realme of Ireland, was much more inconvenient and unmeete, for he found a better advantage of the time, then was in the planting of them in Ireland, and follow∣ed th'execution of them with more severity, and was also present in person to overlooke the Magistrates, and to over awe these subjects with the terrour of his Sword, and countenance of his Majesty. But not so in Ireland, for they were otherwise affected, and yet doe so re∣maine, so as the same Lawes (me seemes) can ill fit with their disposi∣tion, or worke that reformation that is wished. For Lawes ought to be fashioned unto the manners & conditions of the people, to whom they are meant, and not to be imposed upon them according to the simple rule of right, for then (as I said) in stead of good they may worke ill, and pervert Iustice to extreame injustice. For hee that transferres the Lawes of the Lacedemonians to the people of Athens, should finde a great absurditie and inconvenience. For those Lawes of Lacedemon were devised by Licurgus as most proper and best agree∣ing with that people, whom hee knew to be enclined altogether to warres, and therefore wholly trained them up even from their Cra∣dles in armes and military exercises, cleane contrary to the instituti∣on of Solon, who in his Lawes to the Athenians laboured by all meanes to temper their warlike courages with sweet delightes of learning and sciences, so that asmuch as the one excelled in armes, the other exceeded in knowledge. The like regard & moderation ought to be had in tempering and managing of this stubborne nation of the Irish to bring them from their delight of licentious barbarisme unto the love of goodnes and civilitie.

Eudox.

I cannot see how that may better bee then by the Disci∣pline of the Lawes of England: for the English were at first, as stoute and warlike a people as ever the Irish, and yet you see are now brought unto that civillity, that no nation in the world excelleth

them in all goodly conversation, and all the studies of knowledge and humanitie.

Iren.

What they now be, both you and I see very well, but by how many thornie and hard wayes they are come thereunto, by how many civill broiles, by how many tumultuous rebellions, that even hazzarded oftentimes the whole safety of the kingdome, may easily be considered: all which they neverthelesse fairely overcame, by rea∣son of the continuall presence of their King, whose onely person is oftentimes in stead of an Army, to containe the unrulie people from a thousand evill occasions, which this wretched kingdome for want thereof is dayly carried into. The which whensoever they make head, no lawes, no penalties, can restraine, but that they doe in the violence of that furie, tread downe and trample under foote all both divine and humane things, and the lawes themselues they doe speci∣ally rage at, and rend in peeces, as most repugnant to their libertie and naturall freedome, which in their madnes they affect.

Eudox.

It is then a very unseasonable time to plead law, when Swords are in the hands of the vulgar, or to thinke to retaine them with feare of punishments, when they looke after liberty, and shake off all governement.

Iren.

Then so it is with Ireland continually, Eudoxus; for the sword was never yet out of their hand, but when they are weary of warres and brought downe to extreame wretchednesse, then they creepe a little perhaps and sue for grace, till they have gotten new breath and recovered their strength againe. So as it is in vaine to speake of plan∣ting lawes, and plotting pollicie, till they be altogether subdued.

Eudox.

Were they not so at the first conquering of them by Strongbowe in the time of King Henry the second? was there not a tho∣rough way then made by the sword, for the imposing of the lawes upon them? and were they not then executed with such a mightie hand as you said was used by the Norman Conquerour? What oddes is there then in this case? why should not the same lawes take as good effect in that people as they did here, being in like sort prepared by the sword, and brought under by extreamity? and why should they not continue in as good force and vigour for the containing of the people?

Iren.

The case yet is not like, but there appeareth great oddes be∣tweene them: for by the conquest of Henry the second, true it is that the Irish were utterly vanquished and subdued, so as no enemy was able to hold up head against his power, in which their weakenes hee brought in his lawes, and settled them as now they there remaine; Like as William the Conquerour did, so as in thus much they agree; but in the rest that is the cheifest, they varie: for to whom did King Henry the second impose those lawes, not to the Irish, for the most part of them fled from his power, into deserts and mountaines, lea∣ving the wyde countrey to the Conquerour: who in their stead eft∣soones placed English men, who possessed all their lands and did

quite shut out the Irish, or the most part of them. And to those new inhabitants and Colonies, he gave his lawes, to wit the same lawes, under which they were borne and bred, the which it was no difficul∣tie to place amongst them, being formerly well inured thereunto, unto whom afterwards they repaired diverse of the poore distressed people of the Irish, for succour and reliefe of whom, such as they thought fit for labour and industriously disposed, as the most part of their baser sort are, they received unto them as their vassalls, but scarcely vouchsafed to impart unto them the benefit of those lawes under which themselves lived, but every one made his will and com∣mandement a law unto his owne vassall: Thus was not the Law of England ever properly applyed unto the Irish Nation, as by a purpo∣sed plot of government, but as they could insinuate and steale them∣selves under the same, by their humble carriage and submission.

Eudox.

How comes it then to passe, that having beene once so low brought, and thoroughly subjected, they afterwards lifted up themselves so strongly againe, and sithence doe stand so stiffely a∣gainst all rule and government?

Iren.

They say that they continued in that lowlinesse, untill the time that the division between the two houses of Lancaster and Yorke arose for the Crowne of England: at which time all the great English Lords and Gentlemen which had great possessions in Ireland, repai∣red over hither into England, some to succour their Friends here, and to strengthen their partie for to obtaine the Crowne, others to de∣fend their lands and possessions here against such as hovered after the same upon hope of the alteration of the kingdome and successe of that side which they favoured and affected. Then the Irish whom be∣fore they had banished into the mountaines, where they lived onely upon whitt meates, as it is recorded, seeing now their lands so dis∣peopled, and weakened, came downe into all the plaines adjoyning, and thence expelling those few English that remained, repossessed them againe, since which they have remained in them, and growing greater, have brought under them many of the English, which were before their Lords. This was one of the occasions by which all those Countreyes, which lying neere unto any Mountaines, or Irish desarts, had beene planted with English, were shortly displanted and lost. As namely in Mounster all the lands adjoyning unto Slewlogher, Arlo, and the bog of Allon. In Connaght all the Countries bordering upon the Curlues, Mointerolis, and Orourkes Countrey. In Leinster all the lands bordering unto the Mountaines of Glanmalour, unto Shillelah, unto the Brackenah, and Polmonte. In Vlster all the Countreyes neere unto Tir∣connel, Tyrone, and the Scottes.

Eudox.

Surely this was a great violence: but yet by your speach it seemeth that onely the Countreyes and valleyes neere adjoyning unto those mountaines and desarts, were thus recovered by the Irish: but how comes it now that we see almost all that Realme reposses∣sed of them? was there any more such evill occasions growing by

the troubles of England. Or did the Irish out of those places so by them gotten breake further and stretch themselves out thorough the whole land: for now, for ought that I can understand, there is no part but the bare English Pale, in which the Irish have not the greatest footing.

Iren.

But out of these small beginings by them gotten neare to the mountaines, did they spread themselves into the Inland, and also to their further advantage, there did other like unhappy accidents hap∣pen out of England; which gave heart and good opportunity to them to regaine their old possessions: For in the raigne of King Edward the fourth, things remained yet in the same state that they were after the late breaking out of the Irish, which I spake of; and that noble Prince began to cast an Eye unto Ireland, and to minde the reformation of things there runne amisse: for he sent over his brother the worthy Duke of Clarence, who having married the heire of the Earle of Vlster, and by her having all the Earledome of Vlster, and much in Meath and in Mounster, very carefully went about the redressing of all those late evills, and though he could not beate out the Irish againe, by rea∣son of his short continuance, yet hee did shut them up within those narrow corners and glynnes under the mountaines foote, in which they lurked, and so kept them from breaking any further, by buil∣ding strong holdes upon every border, and fortifying all passages. Amongst the which hee repaired the Castle of Clare in Thomond, of which Countrey he had the inheritance, and of Mortimers lands ad∣joyning, which is now (by the Irish) called Killaloe. But the times of that good King growing also troublesome, did lett the thorough re∣formation of all things. And thereunto soone after was added ano∣ther fatall mischeife, which wrought a greater calamity then all the former. For the said Duke of Clarence then Lord Lieutenant of Ire∣land, was by practise of evill persons, about the King his brother, cal∣led thence away: and soone after by sinister meanes was cleane made away. Presently after whose death, all the North revolting, did set up Oneale for their Captaine, being before that of small power and regard: and there arose in that part of Thomond, one of the O-Briens, called Murrogh en-Ranagh, that is, Morrice of the Ferne or wast wilde places, who gathering unto him all the reliques of the discontented Irish, eftsoones surprised the said Castle of Clare, burnt, and spoyled all the English there dwelling, and in short space possessed all that countrey beyond the River of Shanan and neere adjoyning: Whence shortly breaking forth like a suddaine tempest he over-ran all Moun∣ster and Connaght; breaking downe all the holds and fortresses of the English, defacing and utterly subverting all corporate Townes, that were not strongly walled: for those, he had no meanes nor Engines to overthrow, neither indeed would hee stay at all about them, but speedily ran forward, counting his suddennesse his most advantage, that he might overtake the English before they could fortifie or ga∣ther themselves together. So in short space hee cleane wyped out

many great Townes, as first Inchequin, then Killalow, before called Clariford, also Thurles, Mourne, Buttevant, and many others, whose names I cannot remember, and of some of which there is now no memory nor signe remaining. Vpon report whereof there flock∣ed unto him all the scumme of the Irish out of all places, that ere long he had a mighty Army, and thence marched foorth into Leinster, where he wrought great out-rages, wasting all the Countrey where he went; for it was his policie to leave no hold behinde him, but to make all plaine and waste. In the which he soone after created him∣selfe King, and was called King of all Ireland, which before him I doe not reade that any did so generally, but onely Edward le Bruce.

Eudox.

What? was there ever any generall King of all Ireland? I never heard it before, but that it was alwayes (whilst it was under the Irish) divided into foure, and sometimes into five kingdomes or dominions. But this Edward le Bruce what was hee, that could make himselfe King of all Ireland?

Iren.

I would tell you in case you would not challenge me anon for forgetting the matter which I had in hand, that is, the in∣convenience and unfitnesse which I supposed to be in the lawes of the Land.

Eudox.

No surely, I have no cause, for neither is this imperti∣nent thereunto; for sithence you did set your course (as I remember in your first part) to treate of the evils which hindered the peace and good ordering of that Land, amongst which, that of the inconveni∣ence in the lawes, was the first which you had in hand, this discourse of the over-running & wasting of the Realme, is very materiall there∣unto, for that it was the begining of al the other evils, which sithence have afflicted that land, & opened a way unto the Irish to recover their possession, & to beat out the English which had formerly wonne the same. And besides, it will give a great light both unto the second and third part, which is the redressing of those evils, & planting of some good forme or policy therin, by renewing the remembrance of these occasiōs & accidents, by which those ruines hapned, & laying before us the ensamples of those times, to be cōpared to ours, & to be war∣ned by those which shall have to doe in the like. Therefore I pray you tell them unto us, and as for the point where you left, I will not forget afterwards to call you backe againe thereunto.

Iren.

This Edw. le Bruce was brother of Robert le Bruce, who was King of Scotland, at such time as K. Edward the second raigned here in England, and bare a most malicious and spightfull minde against K. Edward, doing him all the scathe that hee could, and annoying his Territoryes of England, whilest hee was troubled with civill warres of his Barons at home. Hee also to worke him the more mischiefe, sent over his said brother Edward with a power of Scottes and Red-shankes into Ireland, where by the meanes of the Lacies, and of the Irish, with whom they combined, they gave footing, and gathering unto him all the scatterlings and out-lawes out of all

the woods and mountaines, in which they long had lurked, mar∣ched foorth into the English pale, which then was chiefly in the North from the point of Donluce and beyond unto Dublin: Having in the middest of her Knockfergus, Belfast, Armagh, and Carling∣ford, which are now the most out-bounds and abandoned places in the English Pale, and indeede not counted of the English Pale at all: for it stretcheth now no further then Dundalke towardes the North. There the said Edward le Bruce spoyled and burnt all the olde English Pale Inhabitants, and sacked and rased all Citties and Corporate Townes, no lesse then Murrough en Ranagh, of whom I earst tolde you: For hee wasted Belfast, Greene-Castle, Kelles, Bellturbut, Castletowne, Newton, and many other very good Townes and strong holdes, hee rooted out the noble Families of the Audlies, Talbotts, Tuchets, Chamberlaines, Maundevills, and the Savages out of Ardes, though of the Lo: Savage there re∣maineth yet an heire, that is now a poore Gentleman of very meane condition, yet dwelling in the Ardes. And comming lastly to Dundalke, hee there made himselfe King, and raigned the space of one whole yeare, untill that Edward King of Eng∣land having set some quiet in his affaires at home, sent over the Lord Iohn Birmingham to bee Generall of the Warres against him, who incountering him neere to Dundalke, over-threw his Army, and slew him. Also hee presently followed the vi∣ctory so hotly upon the Scottes, that hee suffered them not to breathe, or gather themselves together againe, untill they came to the Sea-coast. Notwithstanding all the way that they fledde, for very rancor and despight, in their returne they utterly con∣sumed and wasted whatsoever they had before left unspoyled, so as of all Townes, Castles, Forts, Bridges, and Habitations, they left not any sticke standing, nor any people remayning, for those few which yet survived, fledde from their fury further into the English Pale that now is. Thus was all that goodly coun∣trey utterly wasted. And sure it is yet a most beautifull and sweet Countrey as any is under Heaven, being stored throughout with many goodly Rivers, replenished with all sorts of Fish most abun∣dantly, sprinkled with many very sweet Ilands and goodly Lakes, like little inland Seas, that will carry even shippes upon their waters, adorned with goodly woods even fit for building of houses & ships, so commodiously, as that if some Princes in the world had them, they would soone hope to be Lords of all the Seas, and ere long of all the world: also full of very good Ports and Havens opening upon England, as inviting us to come unto them, to see what excellent cō∣modities that Countrey can afford, besides the soyle it selfe most fer∣tile, fit to yeeld all kinde of fruit that shall be committed thereunto. And lastly, the Heavens most milde and temperate, though somwhat more moist then the parts towards the West.

Eudox.

Truly Iren. what with your praises of the countrey, and

what with your discourse of the lamentable desolation therof, made by those Scottes, you have filled mee with a great compassion of their calamities, that I doe much pitty that sweet Land, to be sub∣iect to so many evills as I see more and more to bee layde upon her, and doe halfe beginne to thinke, that it is (as you said at the begin∣ning) her fatall misfortune above all other Countreyes that I know, to bee thus miserably tossed and turmoyled with these variable stormes of affliction. But since wee are thus farre entred into the consideration of her mishaps, tell mee, have there beene any more such tempests as you terme them, wherein she hath thus wretchedly beene wracked?

Iren.

Many more God wot, have there beene, in which princi∣pall parts have beene rent and torne asunder, but none (as I can re∣member) so universall as this. And yet the rebellion of Thomas fitz Garret did well-nye stretch it selfe into all parts of Ireland. But that which was in the time of the government of the Lord Grey, was sure∣ly no lesse generall then all those, for there was no part free from the contagion, but all conspired in one, to cast off their subiection to the Crowne of England. Neverthelesse thorough the most wise and vali∣ant handling of that right noble Lord, it got not the head which the former evills found; for in them the Realme was left like a ship in a storme, amidst all the raging surges, unruled, and undirected of any: for they to whom she was committed, either fainted in their labour, or forsooke their charge. But hee (like a most wise Pilote,) kept her course carefully, and held her most strongly even against those roa∣ring billowes, that he safely brought her out of all; so as long after, even by the space of 12. or 13. whole yeares, she roade at peace, tho∣rough his onely paines and excellent indurance, how ever envy list to blatter against him. But of this wee shall have more occasion to speake in another place. Now (if you please) let us returne againe un∣to our first course.

Eudox.

Truely I am very glad to heare your iudgement of the government of that honorable man so soundly, for I have heard it of∣tentimes maligned, and his doings depraved of some, who (I per∣ceive) did rather of malicious minde, or private grievance, seeke to detract from the honour of his deeds and Counsels, then of any iust cause, but hee was neverthelesse in the iudgements of all good and wise men, defended and maintained. And now that hee is dead, his immortall fame surviveth, and flourisheth in the mouthes of all people, that even those which did backbite him, are checked with their owne venome, and breake their galls to heare his so honorable report. But let him rest in peace, and turne we to our more trouble∣some matters of discourse, of which I am right sorry that you make so short an end, and covet to passe over to your former purpo∣ses, for there be many other parts of Ireland, which I have heard have bin no lesse vexed with the like stormes, then these which you have treated of, as the Countries of the Birnes & Tooles neere Dublin,

with the insolent out-rages and spoyles of Feagh mac Hugh, the Countreyes of Catherlagh, Wexford, and Waterford, by the Cave∣naghes. The Countreyes of Leix, Kilkenny, and Kildare by the O Moores. The Countreyes of Ofaly and Longford by the Con∣nors. The Countreyes of Westmeath, Cavan, and Lowth, by the O Relyes, the Kellyes, and many others, so as the discoursing of them, besides the pleasure which would redound out of their History, be also very profitable for matters of policy.

Iren.

All this which you have named, and many more be∣sides, often times have I right well knowne, and yet often doe kindle great fires of tumultuous broyles in the Countreyes borde∣ring upon them. All which to rehearse, should rather bee to Chronicle times, then to search into reformation of abuses in that Realme, and yet very needfull it will bee to consider them, and the evills which they have often stirred up, that some redresse thereof, and prevention of the evills to come, may thereby ra∣ther be devised. But I suppose wee shall have a fitter opportuni∣ty for the same, when wee shall speake of the particular ab∣uses, and enormities of the government, which will bee next af∣ter these generall defects and inconveniences which I saide were in the Lawes, Customes, and Religion.

Eudox.

Goe to them a Gods name, and follow the course which you have promised to your selfe, for it fitteth best, I must confesse with the purpose of our discourse. Declare your opini∣on as you began about the Lawes of the Realme, what incom∣moditie you have conceived to bee in them, chiefly in the com∣mon Law, which I would have thought most free from all such dis∣like.

Iren.

The Common Law is (as I saide before) of it selfe most rightfull and very convenient (I suppose) for the King∣dome, for which it was first devised: for this (I thinke) as it seeemes reasonable, that out of your manners of your people, and abuses of your Countrey, for which they were invented, they take their first beginning, or else they should bee most unjust; for no Lawes of man (according to the straight rule of right) are just, but as in regard of the evills which they prevent, and the safety of the Common-weale which they provide for. As for example, in your true ballancing of Iustice, it is a flat wrong to punish the thought or purpose of any before it bee enacted, for true Iustice punisheth nothing but the evill act or wicked word, that by the Lawes of all Kingdomes it is a capitall cryme to devise or purpose the death of your King: The reason is, for that when such a purpose is effected, it should then bee too late to devise thereof, and should turne the Common-wealth to more losse by the death of their Prince, then such punishment of the malefactors. And therefore the Law in that case punisheth the thought, for bet∣ter is a mischiefe, then an inconvenience. So that Ius politicum,

though it bee not of it selfe just, yet by application, or rather necessity it is made just, and this onely respect maketh all Lawes just. Now then, if these Lawes of Ireland bee not likewise applyed and fitted for that Realme, they are sure very inconve∣nient.

Eudox.

You reason strongly: but what unfitnesse doe you finde in them for that Realme, shew us some particulars.

Iren.

The Common Law appointeth, that all tryalls, as well of Crimes, as Titles and Rights, shall bee made by verdict of a Iury, chosen out of the honest and most substantiall Free-holders▪ Now, most of the Free-holders of that Realme, are Irish, which when the cause shall fall betwixt an Englishman and an Irish, or betweene the Queene, and any Free-houl∣der of that Countrey, they make no more scruple to passe against an Englishman, and the Queene, though it bee to strayne their oathes, then to drinke milke unstrayned. So that before the Iury goe together, it is all to nothing what the verdict shall be. The tryall have I so often seene, that I dare confidently avouch the abuse thereof. Yet is the Law of it selfe, (as I said) good, and the first institution thereof being given to all Englishmen ve∣ry rightfully, but now that the Irish have stepped into the very roomes of your English, wee are now to become heedfull and pro∣vident in Iuryes.

Eudox.

In sooth Iren. you have discoversed a point worthy the consideration; for heereby not onely the English subject findeth no indifferencie in deciding of his cause, bee it never so just; but the Queene aswell in all pleas of the Crowne, as also in inquiries for Escheates, Lands attainted, Wardshipps, Con∣cealements, and all such like, is abused and exceedingly dam∣maged.

Iren.

You say very true; for I dare undertake, that at this day there are more attainted Lands, concealed from her Maje∣stie, then shee hath now possessions in all Ireland, and it is no small inconvenience: for besides that, shee looseth so much Land as should turne to her great profite, shee besides loo∣seth so many good subjects, which might bee assured unto her, as those Landes would yeelde Inhabitants and living unto.

Eudox.

But doth many of that people (say you) make no more conscience to perjure themselves in their verdicts, and damne their soules?

Iren.

Not onely so in their verdicts, but also in all other their dealings: especially with the English they are most will∣fully bent: for though they will not seeme manifestly to doe it, yet will some one or other subtle-headed fellow amongst them, put some quirke, or devise some evasion, whereof the rest will likely take hold, and suffer themselves easily to be led by him to

that themselves desired. For in the most apparant matter that may bee, the least question or doubt that may bee mooved, will make a stoppe unto them, and put them quite out of the way. Besides, that of themselves (for the most part) they are so cautelous and wylie-headed, especially being men of so small ex∣perience, and practice in law matters, that you would wonder whence they borrow such subtiltyes and slye shifts.

Eudox.

But mee thinkes this inconvenience might bee much helped in the Iudges and chiefe Magistrates which have the choo∣sing and nominating of those Iurors, if they would have dared to appoint either most Englishmen, and such Irishmen as were of the soundest judgment and disposition; for no doubt but some there bee incorruptible.

Iren.

Some there bee indeede as you say, but then would the Irish partie crye out of partialitie, and complaine hee hath no Iustice, hee is not used as a subject, hee is not suffered to have the free benefite of the Law, and these out-cryes the Magistrates there doe much shunne, as they have cause, since they are rea∣dily hearkened unto heere, neither can it bee indeede, although the Irish party would bee so contented to be so compassed, that such English free-houlders which are but few, and such faith∣full Irish-men, which are indeede as few, shall alwayes bee cho∣sen for tryalls, for being so few, they should bee made weary of their free-houldes. And therefore a good care is to bee had by all good occasions, to encrease their number, and to plant more by them. But were it so, that the Iurors could bee pick∣ed out of such choyce men as you desire, this would neverthe∣lesse bee as bad a corruption in the tryall, for the evidence be∣ing brought in by the baser Irish people, will bee as deceiptfull as the verdict, for they care much lesse then the others, what they sweare, and sure their Lordes may compell them to say any thing, for I my selfe have heard, when one of the baser sort (which they call Churles) being challenged and reproo∣ved for his false oath, hath answered confidently, that his Lord commaunded him, and it was the least thing that hee could doe for his Lord, to sweare for him; so inconscionable are these common people, and so little feeling have they of God, or their owne soules good.

Eudox.

It is a most miserable case, but what helpe can there then bee in this? for though the manner of the tryalls should bee altered, yet the proofe of every thing must needes bee by the testimony of such persons as the partyes shall pro∣duce, which if they shall bee corrupt, how can there ever a∣ny light of the truth appeare, what remedy is there for this e∣vill, but to make heavy Lawes and Penalties against Iu∣rors.

Iren.

I thinke sure that will doe small good, for when a people be inclined to any vice, or have no touch of Conscience, nor sence of their evill doings; it is bootelesse to thinke to restraine them by any penalties or feare of punishment, but either the occasion is to be ta∣ken away, or a more understanding of the right, and shame of the fault to be imprinted. For if that Licurgus should have made it death for the Lacedemonians to steale, they being a people which naturally delighted in stealth, or if it should bee made a capitall crime, for the Flemmings to be taken in drunkennesse, there should have beene few Lacedemonians then left, and few Flemmings now. So unpossible it is, to remove any fault so generall in a people, with terrour of lawes or most sharpe restraints.

Eudox.

What meanes may there be then to avoyde this inconve∣nience, for the case seemes very hard?

Iren.

We are not yet come to the point to devise remedies for the evils, but only have now to recount them, of the which, this which I have told you is one defect in the Common Law.

Eudox.

Tell us then (I pray you) further, have you any more of this sort in the Common Law?

Iren.

By rehearsall of this, I remember also of an other like, which I have often observed in trialls, to have wrought great hurt and hin∣derance, and that is the exceptions which the common law alloweth a Fellon in his tryall, for he may have (as you know) 56. exceptions perēptory against the Iurors, of which he shal shew no cause. By w^ch shift there being (as I have shewed you) so small store of honest Iury∣men, he will either put off his tryall, or drive it to such men as (per∣haps) are not of the soundest sort, by whose meanes, if he can acquite himselfe of the crime, as he is likely, then will he plague such as were brought first to bee of his Iurie, and all such as made any party a∣gainst him. And when he comes forth, he will make their Cowes and Garrons to walke, if he doe no other harme to their persons.

Eudox.

This is a slye devise, but I thinke might soone bee reme∣died, but we must leave it a while to the rest. In the meane-while doe you goe forwards with others.

Iren.

There is an other no lesse inconvenience then this, which is, the tryall of accessaries to fellony, for by the common Law, the ac∣cessaries cannot be proceeded against, till the principall have recei∣ved his tryall. Now to the case, how it often falleth out in Ireland, that a stealth being made by a rebell, or an outlawe, the stolne goods are conveyed to some husbandman or Gentleman, which hath well to take to, and yet liveth most by the receipt of such stealthes, where they are found by the owner, and handled: whereupon the partie is perhaps apprehended and committed to Goale, or put upon sureties, till the Sessions, at which time the owner preferring a bill of Indict∣ment, proveth sufficiently the stealth to have beene committed upon him, by such an Outlaw, and to have beene found in the possession of the prisoner, against whom, neverthelesse, no course of law can pro∣ceede,

nor tryall can be had, for that the principall Theife is not to be gotten, notwithstanding that he likewise, standing perhaps indi∣cted at once, with the Receiver, being in rebellion, or in the woods: where peradventure he is slaine before he can be gotten, and so the Receiver cleane acquitted and discharged of the crime. By which meanes the Theeves are greatly incouraged to steale, and their main∣tainers imboldened to receive their stealthes, knowing how hardly they can be brought to any tryall of Law.

Eudox.

Truely this is a great inconvenience, and a great cause (as you say) of the maintenance of Theeves, knowing their Receivers al∣wayes ready, for were there no receivers, there would be no theeves: but this (me seemes) might easily be provided for, by some act of Par∣liament, that the receiver being convicted by good proofes might re∣ceive his tryall without the principall.

Iren.

You say very true Eudox. but that is almost impossible to be compassed: And herein also you discover another imperfection, in the course of the Common Law, and first ordinance of the Realme: for you know that the said Parliament must consist of the Peeres, Gentlemen, Free-holders, and Burgesses of that Realme it selfe. Now these being perhaps themselves, or the most part of them (as may seeme by their stiffe with-standing of this Act) culpable of this crime, or favourers of their freinds, which are such, by whom their Kitchins are sometimes amended, will not suffer any such Statute to passe. Yet hath it oftentimes beene attempted, and in the time of Sir Iohn Parrot very earnestly (I remember) laboured, but could by no meanes be ef∣fected. And not onely this, but many other like, which are as neede∣full for the reformation of that Realme.

Eudox.

This also is surely a great defect, but wee may not talke (you say) of the redressing of this, untill our second part come, which is purposely appointed thereunto. Therefore proceed to the recoun∣ting of more such evils, if at least, you have any more.

Iren.

There is also a great inconvenience, which hath wrought great dammage, both to her Majesty, and to that common wealth, thorough close and colourable conveyances of the lands and goods of Traytors, Fellons and Fugitives. As when one of them mindeth to goe into rebellion, hee will convey away all his lands and Lord∣ships, to Feoffees in trust, wherby he reserveth to himselfe, but a state for terme of life, which being determined either by the sword or by the halter, their lands straight commeth to their heire, and the Queen is defrauded of the intent of the Law, which laide that grievous pu∣nishment upon Traytors, to forfeite all their lands to the Prince, to the end that men might the rather be terrified from committing trea∣sons, for many which would little esteeme of their owne lives, yet for remorse of their wives and children would bee with-held from that haynous crime. This appeared plainely in the late Earle of Des∣mond. For before his breaking forth into open Rebellion, hee had conveyed secretly all his lands to Feoffees of trust, in hope to have

cut off her Maiestie from the escheate of his Lands.

Eudox.

Yea, but that was well enough avoided, for the Act of Parliament which gave all his lands to the Queene, did (as I have heard) cut off and frustrate all such conveyances, as had at any time by the space of twelve yeares before his rebellion, beene made, within the compasse whereof, the fraudulent Feoffement, and ma∣ny the like of others his accomplices and fellow-traytors were con∣tained.

Iren.

Very true, but how hardly that Act of Parliament was wrought out of them, I can witnesse; and were it to be passed againe, I dare undertake it would never be compassed. But were it also that such Acts might be easily brought to passe against Traytors and Fel∣lons, yet were it not an endlesse trouble, that no Traitour or Fellon should be attainted, but a Parliament must be called for bringing of his Lands to the Queene, which the Common-Law giveth her.

Eudox.

Then this is no fault of the Common Law, but of the persons which worke this fraud to her Majestie.

Iren.

Yes marry; for the Common-Law hath left them this be∣nefite, whereof they make advantage, and wrest it to their bad pur∣poses. So as thereby they are the bolder to enter into evill actions, knowing that if the worst befall them, they shall lose nothing but themselves, whereof they seeme surely very carelesse.

Eudox.

But what meant you of Fugitives herein? Or how doth this concerne them?

Iren:

Yes, very greatly, for you shall understand that there bee many ill disposed and undutifull persons of that Realme, like as in this point there are also in this Realme of England too many, which being men of good inheritance, are for dislike of Religion, or danger of the law, into which they are run, or discontent of the present go∣vernment, fled beyond the seas, where they live under Princes, which are her M^ties professed enemies, & converse, & are confederat with o∣ther traitors & fugitives, which are there abiding. The which never∣thelesse have the benefits & profits of their lands here, by pretence of such colourable conveyances thereof, formerly made by them unto their privie Friends heere in trust, who privily doe send over unto them the said Revenues wherwith they are there maintained and en∣abled against her Majestie.

Eudox.

I doe not thinke that there be any such fugitives, which are relieved by the profite of their Lands in England, for there is a straighter order taken. And if there bee any such in Ireland, it were good it were likewise looked unto, for this evill may easily be reme∣died. But proceede.

Iren.

It is also inconvenient in the Realme of Ireland, that the Wards and Marriages of Gentlemens children should be in the dis∣position of any of those Irish Lords, as now they are, by reason that their Lands bee held by Knights service of those Lords. By which means it comes to passe that those Gentlemen being thus in the ward

of those Lords, are not onely thereby brought up lewdly, and Irish-like, but also for ever after so bound to their services, they will runne with them into any disloyall action.

Eudox.

This greivance Iren. is also complained of in England, but how can it be remedied? since the service must follow the tenure of the lands, and the lands were given away by the Kings of England to those Lords, when they first conquered that Realme, and to say troth, this also would be some prejudice to the Prince in her ward∣shipps.

Iren.

I doe not meane this by the Princes wards, but by such as fall into the hands of Irish Lords, for I could wish, and this I could enforce that all those wardships were in the Princes disposition, for then it might be hoped, that she for the universall reformation of that Realme, would take better order for bringing up those wards in good nurture, and not suffer them to come into so bad hands. And although these things bee already passed away, by her Progenitours former grants unto those said Lords; yet I could finde a way to re∣medie a great part thereof, as hereafter, when fit time serves shall ap∣peare. And since we are entred into speech of such graunts of former Princes, to sundry persons of this Realme of Ireland, I will mention unto you some other, of like nature to this, and of like inconvenience, by which the former Kings of England, passed unto them a great part of their prerogatives, which though then it was well intended, and perhaps well deserved of them which received the same, yet now such a gapp of mischeife lyes open thereby, that I could wish it were well stopped. Of this sort are the graunts of Counties palatines in Ireland, which though at first were granted upon good consideration when they were first conquered, for that those lands lay then as a very border to the wild Irish, subject to continuall invasion, so as it was needfull to give them great priviledges for the defence of the Inhabitants thereof: yet now that it is no more a border, nor fronti∣red with enemies, why should such priviledges bee any more con∣tinued?

Eudox.

I would gladly know what you call a County palatine, and whence it so called.

Iren.

It was (I suppose) first named palatine of a pale, as it were a pale and defense to their inward lands, so as it is called the English Pale, and therefore is a Palsgrave, named an Earle Palatine. Others thinke of the Latine, palare, that is to forrage or out-run, because those marchers and borderers use commonly so to doe. So as to have a county palatine is, in effect, to have a priviledge to spoyle the ene∣mies borders adjoyning. And surely so it is used at this day, as a pri∣viledged place of spoiles and stealthes, for the county of Tipperary, which is now the onely countie palatine in Ireland, is by abuse of some bad ones, made a receptacle to rob the rest of the Counties a∣bout it, by meanes of whose priviledges none will follow their stealthes, so as it being situate in the very lap of all the land, is made

now a border, which how inconvenient it is, let every man judge. And though that right noble man, that is the Lord of the liberty, do paine himselfe, all he may, to yeeld equall Iustice unto all, yet can there not but great abuses lurke in so inward and absolute a privi∣ledge, the consideration whereof is to be respected carefully, for the next succession. And much like unto this graunt, there are other pri∣viledges graunted unto most of the corporations there: that they shal not be bound to any other government then their owne, that they shall not be charged with garrisons, that they shall not bee travailed forth of their owne franchises, that they may buy and sell with theeves and rebels, that all amercements and fines that shal be impo∣sed upon them, shall come unto themselves. All which, though at the time of their first graunt they were tollerable, and perhaps rea∣sonable, yet now, are most unreasonable and inconvenient, but all these will easily be cut off with the superiour power of her Majesties prerogative, against which her owne grants are not to be pleaded or enforced.

Iren.

Now truely Irenaeus you have (me seemes) very well han∣dled this point, touching inconveniences in the Common-Law there, by you observed; and it seemeth that you have had a mindefull regard unto the things that may concerne the good of that Realme. And if you can aswell goe thorough with the Statute lawes of that land. I will thinke you have not lost all your time there. Therefore I pray you, now take them in hand, and tell us, what you thinke to bee amisse in them.

Iren.

The Statutes of that Realme are not many, and therefore we shall the sooner runne thorough them. And yet of those few there are impertinent and unnecessary: the which though perhaps a•• the time of the making of them, were very needfull, yet now tho∣rough change of time are cleane antiquated, and altogether idle: As that which forbiddeth any to weare their beards all on the upper lippe, and none under the Chinne. And that which putteth away saf∣fron shirts and smockes. And that which restraineth the use of guilt bridles and petronels. And that which is appointed for the Recor∣ders and Clerks of Dublin and Tredagh, to take but ij. d. for the cop∣py of a plainte. And that which commaunds Bowes and Arrowes. And that which makes, that all Irishmen which shall converse among the English, shall be taken for spyes, and so punished. And that which forbids persons amesnable to Law, to enter and distraine in the lands in which they have title, and many other the like, I could re∣hearse.

Eudox.

These truely, which yee have repeated, seeme very fri∣volous and fruitelesse, for by the breach of them, little dammage or inconvenience, can come to the Common-wealth: Neither indeed, if any transgresse them, shall he seeme worthy of punishment, scarce of blame, saving but for that they abide by that name of Lawes. But Lawes ought to be such, as that the keeping of them, should be great∣ly

for the behoofe of the Common-weale, and the violating of them should be very haynous, and sharpely punishable. But tell us of some more weighty dislikes in the Statutes then these, and that may more behoofefully import the reformation of them.

Iren.

There is one or two Statutes which make the wrongfull di∣strayning of any mans goods against the forme of Common Law, to be fellony. The which Statutes seeme surely to have beene at first meant for the good of that Realme, and for restrayning of a foule a∣buse, which then raigned commonly amongst that people, and yet is not altogether laide aside: That when any one was indebted to ano∣ther, he would first demaund his debt, and if he were not payed, hee would straight goe and take a distresse of his goods or cattell, where he could finde them, to the value; which he would keepe till he were satisfied, and this the simple Churle (as they call him) doth com∣monly use to doe, yet thorough ignorance of his misdoing, or evill use, that hath long settled amongst them. But this, though it bee sure most unlawfull, yet surely (me seemes) too hard to make it death, since there is no purpose in the party to steale the others goods, or to conceale the distresse, but doth it openly, for the most part, before witnesses. And againe, the same Statutes are so slackely penned (be∣sides the later of them is so unsensibly contryved, that it scarce carry∣eth any reason in it) that they are often and very easily wrested to the fraude of the Subject, as if one going to distrayne upon his own land or Tenement, where lawfully he may, yet if in doing therof he trans∣gresse the least point of the Common Law, hee straight committeth fellony. Or if one by any other occasion take any thing from ano∣ther, as Boyes use sometimes to cap one another, the same is straight fellony. This is a very hard Law.

Eudox.

Nevertheles that evill use of distrayning of another mans goods yee will not deny, but it is to be abolished and taken away.

Iren.

It is so, but not by taking away the subject withall, for that is too violent a medecine, specially this use being permitted, and made lawfull to some, and to other some death. As to most of the corporate Townes there, it is graunted by their Charter, that they may, every man by himselfe, without an Officer (for that were more tollerable) for any debt, to distraine the goods of any Irish, being found within their liberty, or but passing thorough their townes. And the first permission of this, was for that in those times when that graunt was made, the Irish were not amesnable to Law, so as it was not safety for the Townes-man to goe to him forth to demaund his debt, nor possible to draw him into Law, so that he had leave to bee his owne Bayliffe, to arrest his said debters goods, within his owne franchese. The which the Irish seeing, thought it as lawfull for them to distrayne the Townes-mans goods in the Countrey, where they found it. And so by ensample of that graunt to Townes-men, they thought it lawfull, and made it a use to distrayne on anothers goods for small debts. And to say truth, mee thinkes it hard for every tri∣fling

debt, of 2. or 3. shil: to be driven to Law, which is so farre from them sometimes to be sought, for which me thinketh it too heavy an ordinance to give death, especially to a rude man that is ignorant of law, and thinketh that a common use or graunt to other men, is a law for himselfe.

Eudox.

Yea, but the Iudge when it commeth before him to tryall, may easily decide this doubt, and lay open the intent of the Law, by his better discretion.

Iren.

Yea, but it is dangerous to leave the sence of the Law unto the reason or will of the Iudge, who are men and may bee miscaried by affections, and many other meanes. But the Lawes ought to bee like stony Tables, plaine, stedfast, and unmoveable. There is also such another Statute or two, which make Coigny and Livery to bee treason, no lesse inconvenient then the former, being as it is penned, how ever the first purpose thereof were expedient, for thereby now no man can goe into another mans house for lodging, nor to his owne Tennants house to take victuall by the way, notwithstanding that there is no other meanes for him to have lodging, nor horse meate, nor mans meate, there being no Innes, nor none otherwise to bee bought for money, but that he is endangered by that Statute for trea∣son, whensoever he shall happen to fall out with his Tennant, or that his said hoste list to complaine of greivance, as oftentimes I have seene them very malitiously doe, thorough the least provocation.

Eudox.

I doe not well know, but by ghesse, what you doe meane by these termes of Coigny and Livery, therefore I pray you explaine them.

Iren.

I know not whether the words bee English or Irish, but I suppose them to bee rather auncient English, for the Irish men can make no derivation of them. What Livery is, wee by common use in England know well enough, namely, that it is allowance of horse-meate, as they commonly use the word in stabling, as to keepe horses at Livery, the which word, I guesse, is derived of livering or delive∣ring forth their nightly foode: So in great houses, the livery is said to be served up for all night, that is their evenings allowance for drinke. And livery is also called, the upper weede which a serving man wear∣eth, so called (as I suppose) for that it was delivered and taken from him at pleasure: So it is apparant, that by the word Livery, is there meant horse meate, like as by the word Coigny, is understood mans meate. But whence the word is derived is hard to tell: Some say of Coine, for that they used commonly in their Coignies, not onely to take meate, but coine also: and that taking of money was speciallie meant to be prohibited by that Statute: but I thinke rather this word Coigny is derived of the Irish. The which is a common use amongst Land lords of the Irish, to have a common spending upon their Ten∣nants: for all their Tennants, being commonly but Tennants at will, they use to take of them what victuals they list: For of victuals they were wont to make small reckoning: neither in this was the Tennant

wronged, for it was an ordinary and knowne custome, and his Lord commonly used so to covenant with him, which if at any time the tenant disliked, hee might freely depart at his pleasure. But now by this Statute, the said Irish Lord is wronged, for that hee is cut off from his customary services, of the which this was one, besides many other of the like, as Cuddy, Coshery, Bonnaght, Shrah, Sorehin, and such others: the which (I thinke) were customes at first brought in by the English upon the Irish, for they were never wont, and yet are loath to yeeld any certaine Rent, but only such spendings: for their common saying is, Spend me and defend me.

Eudox.

Surely I take it as you say, that therein the Irish Lord hath wrong, since it was an auncient custome, and no∣thing contrary to Law, for to the willing there is no wrong done. And this right well I wot, that even heere in England, there are in many places as large customes, as that of Coignie and Livery. But I suppose by your speach, that it was the first meaning of the sta∣tute, to forbid the violent taking of victualls upon other mens Te∣nants against their wills, which surely is a great out-rage, and yet not so great (mee seemes) as that it should be made treason: for con∣sidering that the nature of treason is concerning the Royall estate or Person of the Prince, or practizing with his enemies, to the derogati∣on and danger of his Crowne and dignitie, it is hardly wrested to make this treason. But (as you earst said) Better a mischiefe then an inconvenience.

Iren.

Another Statute I remember, which having beene an auncient Irish Custome, is now upon advisement made a Law, and that is called the Custome of Kin-cogish, which is, that e∣very head of every Sept, and every chiefe of every kinred or family, should bee answerable and bound to bring foorth every one of that sept and kinred under it, at all times to be iustified, when hee should be required or charged with any treason, felony, or other haynous crime.

Eudox.

Why? surely this seemes a very necessary Law. For considering that many of them bee such Losells and scatterlings, as that they cannot easily by any Sheriffe, Constable, Bayliffe, or other ordinary Officer bee gotten, when they are challenged for any such fact, this is a very good meanes to get them to bee brought in by him, that is the head of that sept, or chiefe of that house, wherfore I wonder what just exception you can make against the same.

Iren.

Truely Eudoxus, in the pretence of the good of this Sta∣ture, you have nothing erred, for it seemeth very expedient and necessary, but the hurt which commeth thereby is greater then the good. For whilest every chiefe of a sept standeth so bound to the Law, for every man of his blood or sept that is under him, and hee made great, by the commaunding of them all. For if hee may not commaund them, then that Law doth wrong, that bin∣deth

him to bring them foorth to bee iustified. And if hee may commaund them, then hee may commaund them aswell to ill as to good. Heereby the Lords and Captaines of Countreyes, the principall and heades of septs are made stronger, whome it should bee a most speciall care in policie to weaken, and to set up and strengthen diverse of his underlings against him, which whensoever hee shall offer to swarve from duty, may bee able to beard him; for it is very dangerous to leave the commaund of so many as some septs are, being five or sixe thousand persons, to the will of one man, who may leade them to what he will, as he himselfe shall be inclined.

Eudox.

In very deede Iren. it is very dangerous, seeing the disposition of those people is not alwayes inclineable to the best. And therefore I holde it no wisedome to leave unto them too much commaund over their kinred, but rather to with-drawe their followers from them asmuch as may bee, and to gather them under the commaund of Law, by some better meane then this cu∣stome of Kin-cogish. The which word I would bee glad to know what it namely signifieth, for the meaning thereof I seeme to under∣stand reasonably well.

Iren.

It is a word mingled of English and Irish together, so as I am partly ledde to thinke, that the custome thereof was first English, and afterwardes made Irish: for such an other Law they had heere in England, as I remember, made by King Alured, that every Gentle∣man should bring foorth his kinred and followers to the Law. So Kin is English, and Congish Affinitie in Irish.

Eudox.

Sith then wee that have thus reasonably handled the inconveniences in the Lawes, let us now passe unto the second part, which was, I remember, of the abuses of customes; in which mee seemes, you have a faire champian layde open unto you, in which you may at large stretch out your discourse into many sweete remembrances of antiquities, from whence it seemeth that the cu∣stomes of that nation proceeded.

Iren.

Indeede Eudox. you say very true; for all the customes of the Irish which I have often noted and compared with that I have read, would minister occasion of a most ample discourse of the originall of them, and the antiquity of that people, which in truth I thinke to bee more auncient then most that I know in this end of the world, so as if it were in the handling of some man of sound judgement and plentifull reading, it would bee most pleasant and profitable. But it may bee wee may at some other time of meeting, take occasion to treate thereof more at large. Heere onely it shall suffise to touch such customes of the Irish as seeme offensive and repugnant to the good government of that Realme.

Eudox.

Follow then your owne course, for I shall the bet∣ter content my selfe to forbeare my desire now, in hope that

you will, as you say, some other time more aboundantly satis∣fie it.

Iren.

Before we enter into the treatie of their customes, it is first needfull to consider from whence they first sprung▪ for from the sundry manners of the nations, from whence that people which now is called Irish, were derived, some of the customes which now remain amongst them, have beene first fetcht, and sithence there continued amongst them; for not of one nation was it peopled, as it is, but of sundry people of different conditions and manners. But the chiefest which have first possessed and inhabited it, I suppose to bee Scy∣thians.

Eudox.

How commeth it then to passe, that the Irish doe derive themselves from Gathelus the Spaniard?

Iren.

They doe indeed, but (I conceive) without any good ground. For if there were any such notable transmission of a Colony hether out of Spaine, or any such famous conquest of this Kingdome by Gathelus a Spaniard, as they would faine be∣lieve, it is not unlikely, but that the very Chronicles of Spaine, (had Spaine then beene in so high regard, as they now have it) would not have omitted so memorable a thing, as the subduing of so noble a Realme to the Spaniard, no more then they doe now neglect to memorize their conquest of the Indians, specially in those times, in which the same was supposed, being nearer un∣to the flourishing age of learning and Writers under the Romanes. But the Irish doe heerein no otherwise, then our vaine English∣men doe in the Tale of Brutus, whom they devise to have first conquered and inhabited this Land, it being as impossible to proove, that there was ever any such Brutus of England, as it is, that there was any such Gathelus of Spaine. But sure∣ly the Scythians (of whom I earst spoke) at such time as the Nor∣therne nations over-flowed all Christendome, came downe to the sea-coast, where inquiring for other Countries abroad, & getting intelligence of this countrey of Ireland, finding shipping convenient, passed thither, and arrived in the North part thereof, which is now called Vlster, which first inhabiting, and afterwards stretching them∣selves forth into the Land, as their numbers increased, named it all of themselves Scuttenland, which more briefly is called Scutland, or Scotland.

Eudox.

I wonder (Irenaeus) whether you runne so farre astray, for whilest wee talke of Ireland, mee thinkes you rippe up the o∣riginall of Scotland, but what is that to this?

Iren.

Surely very much, for Scotland and Ireland are all one and the same.

Eudox.

That seemeth more strange; for we all know right well that they are distinguished with a great Sea running between them, or else there are two Scotlands.

Iren.

Never the more are there two Scotlands, but two kindes of Scots were indeed (as you may gather out of Buchanan) the one Irin, or Irish Scots, the other Albin-Scots; for those Scots are Scythians, arri∣ved (as I said) in the North parts of Ireland, where some of them after passed into the next coast of Albine, now called Scotland, which (after much trouble) they possessed, & of themselves named Scotland; but in processe of time (as it is commonly seene) the dominion of the part prevaileth in the whole, for the Irish Scots putting away the name of Scots, were called onely Irish, & the Albine Scots, leaving the name of Albine, were called only Scots. Therefore it commeth thence that of some writers, Ireland is called Scotia maior, and that which now is called Scotland, Scotia minor.

Eudox.

I doe now well understand your distinguishing of the two sorts of Scots, & two Scotlands, how that this which now is called Ire∣land, was anciently called Erin, and afterwards of some written Scot∣land, & that which now is called Scotland, was formerly called Albin, before the comming of the Scythes thither; but what other nation in∣habited the other parts of Ireland?

Iren.

After this people thus planted in the North (or before) for the certaintie of times in things so farre from all knowledge can∣not be justly avouched) another nation comming out of Spaine, arri∣ved in the West part of Ireland, & finding it waste, or weakely inhabi∣ted, possessed it, who whether they were native Spaniards, or Gaules, or Africans, or Gothes, or some other of those Northerne nations which did over-spread all Christendome, it is impossible to affirme, only some naked conjectures may be gathered, but that out of Spaine certainely they came, that doe all the Irish Chronicles agree.

Eudox.

You doe very boldly Iren. adventure upon the Histories of auncient times, and leane too confidently on those Irish Chronicles which are most fabulous and forged, in that out of them you dare take in hand to lay open the originall of such a nation so antique, as that no monument remaines of her beginning and first inhabiting, especially having bin in those times without letters, but only bare traditions of times & remembrances of Bardes, which use to forge and falsifie every thing as they list, to please or displease any man.

Iren.

Truly I must confesse I doe so, but yet not so absolutely as you suppose. I do herein relye upon those Bard••s or Irish Chroniclers, though the Irish themselves through their ignorance in matters of learning and deepe judgement, doe most constantly beleeve and a∣vouch them, but unto them besides I adde mine owne reading, and out of thē both together, with comparison of times, likewise of man∣ners & customes, affinity of words and names, properties of natures, & uses, resemblances of rites & ceremonies, monuments of Churches and Tombes, and many other like circumstances, I doe gather a likelyhood of truth, not certainely affirming any thing, but by

conferring of times, language, monuments, and such like, I doe hunt out a probability of things, which I leave to your judgement to be∣lieve or refuse. Neverthelesse there be some very auncient Authors that make mention of these things, and some moderne, which by comparing them with present times, experience, and their owne reason, doe open a window of great light unto the rest that is yet unseene; as namely of the elder times, Caesar, Strabo, Tacitus, Pto∣lomie, Pliny, Pomponius Mela, and Berosus: of the later, Vincenti∣us, Aeneas Sylvius, Luidus, Buchanan, for that hee himselfe being an Irish Scot or Pict by nation, and being very excellently lear∣ned and industrious to seeke out the truth of all things concerning the originall of his owne people, hath both set downe the testi∣mony of the auncients truely, and his owne opinion together with∣all very reasonably, though in some things he doth somewhat flat∣ter. Besides the Bardes and Irish Chroniclers themselves, though through desire of pleasing perhappes too much, and ignorances of Arts, and purer learning they have clauded the truth of those lines, yet there appeares among them some reliques of the true antiquitie, though disguised, which a well eyed man may happily discover and finde out.

Eudox.

How can there be any truth in them at all, since the anci∣ent nations which first inhabited Ireland, were altogether destitute of letters, much more of learning, by which they might leave the ve∣rity of things written. And those Bardes comming also so many hun∣dred yeares after, could not know what was done in former ages, nor deliver certainty of any thing, but what they fayned out of their un∣learned heads.

Iren.

Those Bardes indeed, Caesar writeth, delivered no certaine truth of any thing, neither is there any certaine hold to be taken of a∣ny antiquity which is received by tradition, since all men be lyars, & many lye when they wil, yet for the antiquities of the written Chro∣nicles of Ireland, give me leave to say something, not to justifie them, but to shew that some of them might say truth. For where you say the Irish have alwayes bin without letters, you are therein much de∣ceived; for it is certaine, that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently, and long before England.

Eudox.

Is it possible? how comes it then that they are so un∣learned still, being so old schollers? For learning (as the Poet saith) Emollit mores, nec sinit esse feros: whence then (I pray you) could they have those letters?

Iren.

It is hard to say, for whether they at their first comming in∣to the Land, or afterwards by trading with other nations which had letters, learned them of them, or devised them amongst themselves, is very doubtfull, but that they had letters aunciently, is nothing doubtfull, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters, & learning, and learned men from the Irish, and that also appeareth by the likenesse of the Character, for the Saxons Character

is the same with the Irish. Now the Scythians, never, as I can reade, of old had letters amongst them, therfore it seemeth that they had them from the nation which came out of Spaine, for in Spaine there was (as Strabo writeth) letters anciently used, whether brought unto them by the Phenicians, or the Persians, which (as it appeareth by him) had some footing there, or from Marsellis, which is said to have bin inha∣bited by the Greekes, & from them to have had the Greeke Character, of which Marsilians it is said, that the Gaules learned them first, & u∣sed them only for the furtherance of their trades & privat busines, for the Gaules (as is strongly to be proved by many ancient & authenti∣call writers) did first inhabite all the sea coast of Spaine, even unto Cales, & the mouth of the straights, & peopled also a great part of Ita∣ly, which appeareth by sundry havens & cities in Spaine called from them, as Portugallia, Gallecia, Galdunum, & also by sundry nations ther∣in dwelling, which yet have received their own names of the Gaules, as the Rhegni, Presamarei, Tamari, Cineri, and divers others. All which Pomponius Mela being himselfe a Spaniard, yet saith to have descended from the Celts of France, whereby it is to be gathered, that that Nati∣on which came out of Spaine into Ireland, were anciently Gaules, and that they brought with them those letters which they had anciently learned in Spaine, first into Ireland, which some also say, doe much re∣semble the olde Phenician Character, being likewise distinguished with pricke and accent, as theirs aunciently, but the further enquirie hereof needeth a place of longer discourse then this our short confe∣rence.

Eudox.

Surely you have shewed a great probability of that which I had thought impossible to have bin proved, but that which you now say, that Ireland should have bin peopled with the Gaules, seemeth much more strange, for all the Chronicles doe say, that the West & South was possessed & inhabited of Spaniards: and Cornelius Tacitus doth also strongly affirme the same, all which you must over∣throw and falsifie, or else renounce your opinion.

Iren.

Neither so, nor so; for the Irish Chronicles (as I shewed you) being made by unlearned men, & writing things according to the ap∣pearance of the truth, which they conceived doe erre in the circum∣stances, not in the matter. For all that came out of Spaine (they being no diligent searchers into the differences of the nations) supposed to be Spaniards, & so called them; but the ground-work therof is never∣thelesse true & certain, however they through ignorance disguise the same, or through vanity, whilst they would not seem to be ignorant, doe thereupon build & enlarge many forged Histories of their owne antiquity, which they deliver to fooles, and make them believe for true▪ as for example, That first of one Gathelus the sonne of Cecrops or Argos, who having married the King of Egypt his daughter, thence sailed with her into Spaine, & there inhabited: Then that of Nemedus and his sonnes, who comming out of Scythia, peopled Ireland, and in∣habited it with his sonnes 250. yeares, until he was over-come of the

Giants dwelling then in Ireland, and at the last quite banished and rooted out, after whom 200. yeares, the sonnes of one Dela, being Scythians arrived there againe, and possessed the whole land, of which the youngest called Slanius, in the end made himselfe Monarch. Last∣ly of the 4. sonnes of Milesius King of Spaine, which conquered the land from the Scythians, and inhabited it with Spaniards, and called it of the name of the yongest Hiberus, Hibernia: All which are in truth fables, and very Milesian lyes, as the later proverbe is: for never was there such a King of Spaine, called Milesius, nor any such Colonie seated with his sonnes as they faine, that can ever be proved, but yet under these tales you may in a manner see the truth lurke. For Scy∣thians here inhabiting, they name and put Spaniards, whereby appea∣reth that both these nations here inhabited, but whether very Spani∣ards, as the Irish greatly affect, is no wayes to be proved.

Eudox.

Whence commeth it then that the Irish doe so greatly co∣vet to fetch themselves from the Spaniards, since the old Gaules are a more auncient and much more honorable nation.

Iren.

Even of a very desire of new fanglenes and vanity, for they derive themselves from the Spaniards, as seeing them to bee a very honourable people, and neere bordering unto them: but all that is most vaine, for from the Spaniards that now are, or that people that now inhabite Spaine, they no wayes can prove themselves to descend; neither should it be greatly glorious unto them, for the Spaniard that now is, is come from as rude and savage nations as they, there being, as there may be gathered by course of ages, and view of their owne History (though they therein labour much to enoble themselves) scarce any drop of the old Spanish blood left in them, for all Spaine was first conquered by the Romans, and filled with colonies from them, which were still increased, and the native Spaniard still cut off. Afterwards the Carthaginians in all the long Punick warres (having spoiled all Spaine, and in the end subdued it wholly unto themselves) did as it is likely, root out all that were affected to the Romans. And lastly the Romans having againe recovered that countrey, and beate out Hannibal, did doubtlesse cut off all that favored the Carthaginians, so that betwixt them both, to and fro, there was scarce a native Spa∣niard left, but all inhabited of Romans. All which tempests of troubles being over-blowne, there long after arose a new storme, more dread∣full then all the former, which over-ran all Spaine, and made an infi∣nite confusion of all things; that was, the comming downe of the Gothes, the Hunnes, and the Vandals: And lastly all the nations of Scy∣thia, which like a mountaine flood, did over-flow all Spaine, and quite drowned and washt away whatsoever reliques there was left of the land-bred people, yea, and of all the Romans too. The which Nor∣therne nations finding the nature of the soyle, and the vehement heat thereof farre differing from their constitutions, tooke no felicity in that Country, but from thence passed over, and did spread them∣selves into all Countryes of Christendome, of all which there is

none but hath some mixture or sprinckling, if not throughly people∣ing of them. And yet after all these the Moores and the Barbarians breaking over out of Affrica, did finally possesse all Spaine, or the most part thereof, and did tread under their heathenish feete, what e∣ver little they found yet there standing. The which though after they were beaten out by Ferdinando of Arragon and Elizabeth his wife, yet they were not so cleansed, but that through the marriages which they had made, and mixture with the people of the land, during their long continuance there, they had left no pure drop of Spanish blood, no more then of Roman or of Scythian. So that of all nations under hea∣ven (I suppose) the Spaniard is the most mingled, and most uncertaine, wherefore most foolishly doe the Irish thinke to enoble themselves by wresting their Auncientry from the Spaniard, who is unable to derive himselfe from any in certaine.

Eudox.

You speake very sharpely Iren. in dispraise of the Spani∣ard, whom some others boast to be the onely brave nation under the Skie.

Iren.

So surely he is a very brave man, neither is that any thing which I speake to his derogation, for in that I said he is a mingled people, it is no dispraise, for I thinke there is no nation now in Chri∣stendome, nor much further, but is mingled, and compounded with others: for it was a singular providence of God, and a most admirall purpose of his wisedome, to draw those northerne heathen nations downe into those Christian parts, where they might receive Chri∣stianity, and to mingle nations so remote miraculously, to make as it were one blood and kindred of all people, and each to have know∣ledge of him.

Eudox.

Neither have you sure any more dishonoured the Irish, for you have brought them from very great and ancient nations, as any were in the world, how ever fondly they affect the Spanish. For both Scythians and Gaules were two as mighty nations as ever the world brought forth. But is there any token, denomination or monument of the Gaules yet remaining in Ireland, as there is of the Scythians?

Iren.

Yea surely very many words of the Gaules remaining, and yet dayly used in Common speech.

Eudox.

What was the Gaulish speech, is there any part of it still used among any nation?

Iren.

The Gaulish speech, is the very British, the which was ve∣ry generally used here in all Brittaine, before the comming of the Saxons: and yet is retained of the Welshmen, Cornishmen, and the Brit∣taines of France, though time working the alterarion of all things, and the trading and interdeale with other nations round about, have changed and greatly altered the dialect thereof, but yet the originall words appeare to be the same, as who hath list to read in Camden and Buchanan, may see at large. Besides there be many places, as havens, hills, townes and Castles, which yet beare the names from the Gaules, of the which, Buchanan rehearseth above 500. in Scotland, and I can

(I thinke) recount neere as many in Ireland which retaine the old de∣nomination of the Gaules, as the Menapij, Cauci, Venti, and others; by all which and many other reasonable probabilities (which this short course will not suffer to be laide forth) it appeareth that the cheife Inhabitants in Ireland were Gaules, comming thither first out of Spain, and after from besides Tanais, where the G••thes, the Hunnes, and the Getes sate downe, they also being (as it is said of some) ancient Gaules, and lastly passing out of Gallia it selfe, from all the Sea-coast of Bel∣gia and Celtica, into al the southerne coasts of Ireland, which they pos∣sessed and inhabited, whereupon it is at this day, amongst the Irish a common use, to call any stranger Inhabitant there amongst them, Gald, that is descended from the Gaules.

Eudox.

This is very likely, for even so did those Gaules anciently possesse all the southerne coasts of our Brittaine, which yet retaine their old names, as the Belga, in Sommerset-shire, Wilshire, and part of Hamshire, Attrebatij in Barkeshire, Regni in Sussex and Surry, and many others. Now thus farre then, I understand your opinion, that the Scy∣thians planted in the north part of Ireland: the Spaniards (for so we call them, what ever they were that came from Spaine) in the west, the Gaules in the south: so that there now remaineth the east parts to∣wards England, which I would be glad to understand from whence you doe thinke them to be peopled.

Iren.

Mary I thinke of the Brittaines themselves, of which though there be little footing now remaining, by reason that the Saxons af∣terwards, and lastly the English, driving out the Inhabitants thereof, did possesse and people it themselves. Yet amongst the Tooles, the Birns, or Brins, the Cavenaghes▪ and other nations in Leinster, there is some memory of the Britans remayning. As the Tooles are called of the old British word Tol, that is, a hill Countrey, the Brins of the Bri∣tish word Brin, that is, woods, and the Cavenaghes of the word Caune, that is, strong, so that in these three people the very denomination of the old Britons doe still remaine. Besides when any flieth under the succour and protection of any against an enemie, he cryeth unto him, Comericke, that is in the Brittish, helpe, for the Brittaine is called in their owne language, Comeroy. Furthermore to prove the same, Ireland is by Diodorus Siculus, and by Strabo, called Britannia, and a part of great Brittaine. Finally it appeareth by good record yet extant, that King Arthur, and after him Gurgunt, had all that Iland under their al∣leagiance and subjection, hereunto I could add many probabilities of the names of places, persons, and speeches, as I did in the former, but they should be too long for this, and I reserve them for another. And thus you have had my opinion, how all that Realme of Ireland was first peopled, and by what nations. After all which the Saxons suc∣ceeding, subdued it wholly to themselves. For first Egfrid King of Northumberland, did utterly waste and subdue it, as appeareth out of Beda's complaint against him, and after him, King Edgar brought it under his obedience, as appeareth by an auncient Record, in which

it is found written, that he subdued all the Islands of the North, even unto Norway, and brought them into his subjection.

Eudox.

This ripping of Auncestors, is very pleasing unto me, and indeede savoureth of good conceipt, and some reading withall. I see hereby how profitable travaile, and experience of forraine nations, is to him that will apply them to good purpose. Neither indeed would I have thought, that any such antiquities could have beene avouched for the Irish, that maketh me the more to long to see some other of your observations, which you have gathered out of that country, and have earst halfe promised to put forth: And sure in this mingling of Nations appeareth (as you earst well noted) a wonderfull provi∣dence and purpose of Almighty God, that stirred up the people in the furthest parts of the world, to seeke out their regions so remote from them, and by that meanes, both to restore their decayed habita∣tions, and to make himselfe knowne to the heathen. But was there I pray you no more generall employing of that Iland, then first by the Scythians, which you say were the Scottes, and afterward by the Spa∣niards, besides the Gaules, Brittaines and Saxons?

Iren.

Yes, there was another, and that last and greatest, which was by the English, when the Earle Strangbowe having conquered that land, delivered up the same into the hands of Henry the second then King, who sent over thither, great store of Gentlemen, and other warlike people, amongst whom, he distributed the Land, and setled such a strong Colonie therein, as never since could with all the subtle practices of the Irish be rooted out, but abide still a mighty people, of so many as remaine English of them.

Eudox.

What is this that you say, of so many as remaine English of them? Why? are not they that were once English, English still?

Iren.

No, for some of them are degenerated and growne almost meere Irish, yea and more malitious to the English then the Irish them∣selves.

Eudox.

What heare I? And is it possible that an Englishman brought up in such sweet civility as England affords, should find such liking in that barbarous rudenes, that he should forget his owne na∣ture, and forgoe his owne nation, how may this bee, or what (I pray you) may be the cause thereof?

Iren.

Surely, nothing but the first evill ordinance and institution of that Common-wealth. But thereof here is no fit place to speake, least by the occasion thereof, offering matter of a long discourse, we might be drawne from this, that we have in hand, namely the handle∣ing of abuses in the Customes of Ireland.

Eudox.

In truth Iren. you doe well remember the plot of your first purpose; but yet from that (me seemes) yee have much swarved in all this long discourse, of the first inhabiting of Ireland, for what is that to your purpose?

Iren.

Truely very materiall, for if you marked the course of all that speech well, it was to shew, by what meanes the customes, that

now are in Ireland, being some of them indeede very strange and al∣most heathenish, were first brought in: and that was, as I said, by those Nations from whom that Countrey was first peopled; for the diffe∣rence in manners and customes, doth follow the difference of nations and people. The which I have declared to you, to have beene three especially which seated themselves here: to wit first the Scythian, then the Gaules, and lastly the English. Notwithstanding that I am not ig∣norant, that there were sundry Nations which go•• footing in that land, of the which there yet remaine divers great families and septs, of whom I will also in their proper places make mention.

Eudox.

You bring your selfe Iren. very well into the way againe, notwithstanding that it seemeth that you were never out of the way, but now that you have passed thorough those antiquities, which I could have wished not so soone ended, begin when you please, to de∣clare what customes and manners have beene derived from those nations to the Irish, and which of them, you finde fault withall.

Iren.

I will begin then to count their customes in the same or∣der that I counted their Nations, and first with the Scythian or Scottish manners. Of the which there is one use, amongst them to keepe their cattle, and to live themselves the most part of the yeare in Boolies, pa∣sturing upon the mountaine, and waste wilde places; and removing still to fresh land, as they have depastured the former. The which ap∣peareth plaine to be the manner of the Scythians, as you may read in Olaus Magnus, and Io: Bohemus, and yet is used, amongst all the Tarta∣rians and the people about the Caspian Sea, which are naturally Scy∣thians, to live in heards as they call them, being the very same, that the Irish Boolies are, driving their cattle continually with them, and feeding onely on their milke and white meates.

Eudox.

What fault can you finde with this custome? for though it be an old Scythian use, yet is it very behoofefull in this Country of Ireland, where there are great mountaines, and waste deserts full of grasse, that the same should be eaten downe, and nourish many thou∣sands of cattle, for the good of the whole Realme, which cannot (me thinks) well be any other way, then by keeping those Boolies there, as yee have shewed.

Iren:

But by this custome of Boolying, there grow in the meane time many great enormityes unto that Common-wealth. For first if there be any out-lawes, or loose people, (as they are never without some) which live upon stealthes and spoyles, they are evermore succoured and finde releife only in these Boolies, being upon the waste places, whereas else they should be driven shortly to starve, or to come downe to the townes to seeke releife, where by one meanes or other, they would soone be caught. Besides such stealthes of cattle as they make, they bring commonly to those Boolies, being upon those waste places, where they are readily received, and the theife harboured from danger of law, or such Officers as might light upon him. More∣over the people that thus live in those Boolies, grow thereby the more

barbarous, and live more licentiously then they could in Townes, using what manners they list, and practizing what mischeifes and villainies they will, either against the government there, by their combynations, or against private men, whom they maligne, by stea∣ling their goods, or murdering themselves. For there they thinke themselves halfe exempted from law and obedience, and having once tasted freedome, doe like a steere, that hath beene long out of his yoke, grudge and repyne ever after, to come under Rule againe.

Eudox.

By your speech Iren. I perceive more evill come by this use of Boolies, then good by their grasing: and therefore it may well be reformed: but that must be in his due course, doe you proceed to the next.

Iren.

They have another custome from the Scythians, that is the wearing of Mantles, and long Glibbes, which is a thicke curled bush of haire, hanging downe over their eyes, and monstrously disguising them, which are both very bad and hurtfull.

Eudox.

Doe you thinke that the Mantle commeth from the Scy∣thians? I would surely thinke otherwise, for by that which I have read, it appeareth that most Nations of the world aunciently used the Mantle. For the Iewes used it, as you may read of Elyas Mantle, &c. The Chaldees also used it, as yee may read in Diodorus. The Egyptians likewise used it, as yee may read in Herodotus, and may bee gathered by the description of Berenice, in the Greeke Commentary upon Calli∣machus. The Greekes also used it aunciently, as appeareth by Venus Mantle lyned with starrs, though afterwards they changed the forme thereof into their cloakes, called Pallia, as some of the Irish also use. And the auncient Latines and Romans used it, as you may read in Virgil, who was a very great Antiquary. That Euander, when Aenaeas came to him at his Feast, did entertaine and feast him, sitting on the ground, and lying on Mantles. Insomuch as he useth the very word Mantile for a Mantle.

—Humi mantilia sternunt.

So that it seemeth that the Mantle was a generall habite to most Na∣tions, and not proper to the Scythians onely, as you suppose.

Iren.

I cannot deny but that aunciently it was common to most, and yet sithence disused and laide away. But in this later age of the world, since the decay of the Romane Empire, it was renewed and brought in againe by those Northerne nations, when breaking out of their cold caves and frozen habitations, into the sweet soyle of Europe, they brought with them their usuall weedes, fit to sheild the cold, and that continuall frost, to which they had at home beene in∣ured: the which yet they left not off, by reason that they were in per∣petuall warres, with the Nations whom they had invaded, but still removing from place to place, carried alwayes with them that weed, as their house, their bed, and their garment, and comming lastly into Ireland, they found there more speciall use thereof, by reason of the rawe cold climate, from whom it is now growne into that generall

use, in which that people now have it. After whom the Gaules succee∣ding, yet finding the like necessitie of that garment, continued the like use thereof.

Eudox.

Since then the necessity thereof is so commodious, as you alledge, that it is insteed of housing, bedding, & cloathing, what rea∣son have you then to wish so necessarie a thing cast off?

Iren.

Because the commoditie doth not countervaile the discō∣moditie: for the inconveniences which thereby doe arise, are much more many. For it is a fit house for an Out-law, a meet bed for a Re∣bell, & an apt cloake for a thiefe. First the Out-law being for his ma∣ny crimes and villanyes, banished from the Townes & houses of ho∣nest men, & wandring in waste places, far from danger of law, maketh his Mantle his house, & under it covereth himselfe from the wrath of Heaven, frō the offence of the Earth, & from the sight of men. When it raineth it is his pent-house; when it bloweth it is tent, when it free∣zeth it is his Tabernacle. In sommer he can weare it loose, in winter he can wrap it close, at all times he can use it; never heavy, never cum∣bersome. Likewise for a Rebell it is as serviceable. For in his warre that he maketh (if at least it deserve the name of warre) when he still flyeth from his foe, & lurketh in the thicke woods & straite passages, waiting for advantages, it is his bed, yea and almost as his houshold stuff. For the wood is his house against all weathers, & his Mantle is his couch to sleepe in. Therein he wrappeth himself round, & couch∣eth himselfe strongly against the gnats, which in that countrey doe more annoy the naked Rebels, whilst they keepe the woods, & doe more sharply wound them then all their enemies swords, or speares, which can seldome come nigh them: yea & oftentimes their Mantle serveth them, when they are neere driven, being wrapped about their left arme in steed of a Target, for it is hard to cut thorough with a sword, besides it is light to beare, light to throw away, and being (as they commonly are) naked, it is to them all in all. Lastly for a Theife it is so handsome, as it may seeme it was first invented for him, for un∣der it he may cleanly convey any fit pillage that commeth handsom∣ly in his way, & when he goeth abroad in the night in free-booting, it is his best & surest friend; for lying as they often do 2. or 3. nights to∣gether abroad to watch for their booty, with that they can prettily shroud themselves under a bush or a banke side, till they may conve∣niently do their errand: & when all is over, he can in his mantle passe thorough any town or company, being close hooded over his head, as he useth, from knowledge of any to whom he is indangered. Besides this, he or any man els that is disposed to mischief or villany, may un∣der his mantle goe privily armed without suspition of any, carry his head-peece, his skean, or pistol if he please, to be alwayes in readines. Thus necessary & fitting is a mantle for a bad man, & surely for a bad huswife it is no lesse convenient, for some of them that bee wandring woemen, called of them Mona-Shul, it is halfe a wardrobe: for in sum∣mer you shal find her arrayed commonly, but in her smock & mantle

to be more ready for her light services: in winter, and in her travaile, it is her cloake and safeguard, and also a coverlet for her lewde exer∣cise. And when she hath filled her vessell, under it she can hide both her burden, and her blame; yea, and when her Bastard is borne, it serves insteed of swadling clouts. And as for all other good women which love to doe but little worke, how handsome it is to lye in and sleepe, or to louse themselves in the Sun-shine, they that have beene but a while in Ireland can well witnes. Sure I am that you will thinke it very unfit for a good huswife to stirre in, or to busie her selfe about her huswifry in such sort as she should. These be some of the abuses for which I would thinke it meet to forbid all Mantles.

Eudox.

O evill minded man, that having reckoned up so many uses of a Mantle, will yet wish it to be abandoned! Sure I thinke Di∣ogenes dish did never serve his Master for more turnes, notwithstan∣ding that he made it his Dish, his Cup, his Cap, his Measure, his Wa∣ter-pot, then a Mantle doth an Irish man. But I see they be most to bad intents, & therefore I will joyne with you in abolishing it. But what blame lay you to the glibbe? take heed (I pray you) that you be not too busie therewith for feare of your owne blame, seeing our Englishmen take it up in such a generall fashion to weare their haire so immeasurably long, that some of them exceed the longest Irish glibs.

Iren.

I feare not the blame of any undeserved dislikes: but for the Irish glibbes, they are as fit maskes as a mantle is for a thiefe. For whensoever he hath run himselfe into that perill of Law, that he will not be knowne, he either cutteth off his glibbe quite, by which he be∣commeth nothing like himselfe, or pulleth it so low downe over his eyes, that it is very hard to discerne his theevish countenance. And therefore fit to be trussed up with the Mantle.

Eudox.

Truly these three Scythian abuses, I hold most fit to bee taken away with sharpe penalties, and sure I wonder how they have beene kept thus long, notwithstanding so many good provisions and orders, as have beene devised for that people.

Iren.

The cause thereof shall appeare to you hereafter: but let us now go forward with our Scythian customes. Of which the next that I have to treat of, is the manner of raising the cry in their conflicts, & at other troublesome times of uproare: the which is very natural Scy∣thian, as you may read in Diodorus Siculus, & in Herodotus, describing the maner of the Scythians & Parthians comming to give the charge at battles: at which it is said that they came running with a terrible yell as if heaven & earth would have gone together, which is the very I∣mage of the Irish Hubub, which their Kerne use at their first encounter. Besides, the same Herodotus writeth, that they used in their battles to call upon the names of their Captains or Generals, & somtimes upon their greatest Kings deceased, as in that battle of Thomyris against Cy∣rus: which custome to this day manifestly appeareth amongst the I∣rish. For at their joyning of Battle, they likewise call upon their Captaines name, or the word of his Auncestours. As they under

Oneale cry Laundarg-abo, that is, the bloody hand, which is Oneales badge. They under O Brien call Laun-laider, that is, the strong hand. And to their ensample, the old English also which there remayneth, have gotten up their cryes Scythian-like, as Crom-abo, and Butler-abo. And here also lyeth open an other manifest proofe, that the Irish bee Scythes or Scots, for in all their incounters they use one very common word, crying Ferragh, Ferragh, which is a Scottish word, to wit, the name of one of the first Kings of Scotland, called Feragus, or Fergus, which fought against the Pictes, as you may reade in Buchanan, de rebus Scoticis; but as others write, it was long before that, the name of their chiefe Captaine, under whom they fought against the Africans, the which was then so fortunate unto them, that ever sithence they have used to call upon his name in their battailes.

Eudox.

Believe me, this observation of yours Irenaeus, is very good and delightfull; far beyond the blinde conceipt of some, who (I remember) have upon the same word Ferragh, made a very blunt conjecture, as namely M. Stanihurst, who thogh he be the same coun∣treyman borne, that should search more neerely into the secret of these things, yet hath strayed from the truth all the heavens wyde, (as they say) for he thereupon groundeth a very grosse imagination, that the Irish should descend from the Egyptians which came into that Island, first under the leading of one Scota the daughter of Pharaoh, whereupon they use (saith he) in all their battailes, to call upon the name of Pharaoh, crying Ferragh, Ferragh. Surely he shootes wyde on the Bow hand, & very far from the marke. For I would first know of him what auncient ground of authority he hath for such a senselesse fable, & if he have any of the rude Irish bookes, as it may be hee hath, yet (me seemes) that a man of his learning should not so lightly have bin carried away with old wives tales, from approvance of his owne reason, for whether it be a smack of any learned iudgment, to say, that Scota is like an Egyptian word, let the learned iudge. But his Scota ra∣ther comes of the Greeke σκότοσ, that is, darknes, which hath not let him see the light of the truth.

Iren.

You know not Eudoxus, how well M. Stan. could see in the darke, perhaps he hath Owles or Cats eyes: but well I wot he seeth not well the very light in matters of more weight. But as for Ferragh I have told my coniecture only, and yet thus much I have more to prove a likelyhood, that there be yet at this day in Ireland, many Irish men (chiefly in the Northerne parts) called by the name of Ferragh. But let that now be: this only for this place suffiseth, that it is a word used in their cōmon hububs, the which (with all the rest) is to be abo∣lished, for that it discovereth an affectatiō to Irish captainry, which in this platform I indevour specially to beat down. There be other sorts of cryes also used among the Irish, which savour greatly of the Scythi∣an barbarisme, as their lamentations at their buryals, with dispairfull out-cryes, and immoderate waylings, the which Master Stanihurst might also have used for an Argument to proove them Egyptians.

For so in Scripture it is mentioned, that the Egyptians lamented for the death of Ioseph. Others thinke this custome to come from the Spaniards, for that they doe immeasurably likewise bewayle their dead. But the same is not proper Spanish, but altogether Heathenish, brought in thither first either by the Scythians, or the Moores that were Africans, and long possessed that Countrey. For it is the manner of all Pagans and Infidels to be intemperate in their waylings of their dead, for that they had no faith nor hope of salvation. And this ill cu∣stome also is specially noted by Diodorus Siculus, to have beene in the Scythians, and is yet amongst the Northerne Scots at this day, as you may reade in their Chronicles.

Eudox.

This is sure an ill custome also, but yet doth not so much concerne civill reformation, as abuse in Religion.

Iren.

I did not rehearse it as one of the abuses which I thought most worthie of reformation; but having made mention of Irish cryes I thought this manner of lewd crying and howling, not impertinent to be noted as uncivill and Scythian-like: for by these old customes, and other like coniecturall circumstances, the descents of nations can only be proved, where other monuments of writings are not remay∣ning.

Eudox.

Then (I pray you) whensoever in your discourse you meet with them by the way, doe not shun, but boldly touch them: for be∣sides their great pleasure and delight for their antiquity, they bring also great profit and helpe unto civility.

Iren.

Then sith you will have it so, I will heere take occasion, since I lately spake of their manner of cryes in ioyning of battaile, to speake also somewhat of the manner of their Armes, and array in Battell, with other customes perhappes worthy the noting. And first of their Armes and Weapons, amongst which their broad Swordes are proper Scythian, for such the Scythes used commonly, as you may read in Olaus Magnus. And the same also the old Scots used, as you may read in Buchanan, and in Solinus, where the pictures of them are in the same forme expressed. Also their short Bowes, and little Quivers with short bearded Arrowes, are very * 1.1 Scythian, as you may reade in the same Olaus. And the same sort both of Bowes, Quivers, and Arrowes, are at this day to bee seene commonly amongst the Nor∣therne Irish-Scots, whose Scottish Bowes are not past three quarters of a yard long, with a string of wreathed hempe slackely bent, and whose Arrowes are not much above halfe an ell long, tipped with steele heads, made like common broad Arrow heades, but much more sharpe and slender, that they enter into a man or horse most cruelly, notwithstanding that they are shot foorth weakely. More∣over their long broad Shields, made but with wicker roddes, which are commonly used amongst the said Northerne Irish, but especially of the Scots, are brought from the Scythians, as you may read in Olaus Magnus, Solinus, & others: likwise their going to battle without armor on their bodies or heads, but trusting to the thicknes of their glibbs,

the which (they say) will sometimes beare off a good stroke, is meere Scythian, as you may see in the said Images of the old Scythes or Scots, set foorth by Herodianus and others. Besides, their confused kinde of march in heapes, without any order or array, their clashing of swords together, their fierce running upon their enemies, and their manner of fight, resembleth altogether that which is read in histories to have beene used of the Scythians. By which it may almost infallibly be ga∣thered together, with other circumstances, that the Irish are very Scots or Scythes originally, though sithence intermingled with many other Nations repairing and joyning unto them. And to these I may also adde another strong conjecture which commeth to my mind, that I have often observed there amongst them, that is, certain religious ce∣remonies, which are very superstitiously yet used amongst them, the which are also written by sundry authours, to have bin observed a∣mongst the Scythians, by which it may very vehemently be presumed that the nations were anciently all one. For * 1.2 Plutarch (as I remember) in his treatise of Homer, indeavouring to search out the truth, what countryman Homer was, prooveth it most strongly (as he thinketh) that he was an Aeolian borne, for that in describing a sacrifice of the Greekes, he omitted the loyne, the which all the other Grecians (saving the Aeolians) use to burne in their sacrifices: also for that he makes the intralls to be rosted on five spits, which was the proper manner of the Aeolians, who onely of all the nations of Grecia, used to sacrifize in that sort. By which he inferreth necessarily, that Homer was an Ae∣olian. And by the same reason may I as reasonably conclude, that the Irish are descended from the Scythians, for that they use (even to this day) some of the same ceremonies which the Scythians anciently used. As for example, you may reade in Lucian in that sweet Dia∣logue, which is intitled Toxaris, or of friendship, that the common oath of the Scythians was by the sword, and by the fire, for that they accounted those two speciall divine powers, which should worke vengeance on the perjurers. So doe the Irish at this day when they goe to battaile, say certaine prayers or charmes to their swords, ma∣king a crosse therewith upon the earth, and thrusting the points of their blades into the ground, thinking thereby to have the better suc∣cesse in fight. Also they use commonly to sweare by their swords. Also the Scythians used when they would binde any solemne vow or combination amongst thē, to drink a Bowle of blood together, vow∣ing therby to spend their last blood in that quarrell: & even so do the wild Scots, as you may read in Buchanan: and some of the Northerne Irish. Likewise at the kindling of the Fire, and lighting of Candles, they say certaine prayers, & use some other superstitious rites, which shew that they honour the Fire and the light: for all those Nor∣therne Nations having beene used to be annoyed with much colde and darkenesse, are wont therefore to have the Fire and the Sunne in great veneration; like as contrarywise the Moores and Egyptians which are much offended and grieved with extreame heat of the

Sunne, doe every morning when the Sunne ariseth, fall to cursing and banning of him as their plague. You may also reade in the same booke, in the tale of Arsacomas, that it was the manner of the Scy∣thians, when any one of them was heavily wronged, and would as∣semble unto him any forces of people to joyne with him in his re∣venge, to sit in some publicke place for certaine dayes upon an Oxe hide, to which there would resort all such persons as being disposed to take Armes, would enter into his pay, or joyne with him in his quarrell. And the same you may likewise reade to have beene the ancient manner of the wilde Scotts, which are indeed the very natu∣rall Irish. Moreover the Scythians used to sweare by their Kings hand, as Olaus sheweth. And so do the Irish use now to sweare by their Lords hand, and to forsweare it, holde it more criminall then to sweare by God. Also the Scythians said, that they were once a yeare tur∣ned into Wolves, and so is it written of the Irish: Though Master Camden in a better sense doth suppose it was a disease, called Lycan∣thropia, so named of the Wolfe. And yet some of the Irish doe use to make the Wolfe their Gossip. The Scythians used also to see the the flesh in the hide: & so doe the Northerne Irish. The Scythians used to draw the blood of the beast living, & to make meat thereof: & so doe the Irish in the North still. Many such customes I could recount unto you, as of their old manner of marrying, of burying, of dancing, of singing, of feasting, of cursing, though Christians have wyped out the most part of them, by resemblance, whereof it might plainly ap∣peare to you, that the Nations are the same, but that by the reckoning of these few, which I have told unto you, I finde my speech drawne out to a greater length then I purposed. Thus much onely for this time I hope shall suffise you, to thinke that the Irish are anciently de∣duced from the Scythians.

Eudox.

Surely Iren. I have heard in these few words, that from you which I would have thought had bin impossible to have bin spoken of times so remote, and customes so ancient: with delight whereof I was all that while (as it were intranced, and carried so farre from my selfe, as that I am now right sorry that you ended so soone. But I marvaile much how it commeth to passe, that in so long continuance of time, and so many ages come betweene, yet any jot of those olde rites and superstitious customes should remaine amongst them.

Iren.

It is no cause of wonder at all, for it is the maner of many Na∣tions to be very superstitious, and diligent observers of old customes & antiquities, which they receive by continuall tradition from their Parents, by recording of their Bards and Chronicles, in their songs, and by daylie use and ensample of their elders.

Eudox.

But have you (I pray you) observed any such customes amongst them, brought likewise from the Spaniards or Gaules, as these from the Scythians? that may sure be very materiall to your first purpose.

Ien.

Some perhaps I have, & who that will by this occasion more

diligently marke and compare their customes, shall find many more. But there are fewer remayning of the Gaules or Spaniards, then of the Scythians, by reason that the partes, which they then possessed, lying upon the coast of the Westerne and Southerne Sea, were sithence vi∣sited with strangers and forraine people, repayring thither for traf∣ficke, and for fishing, which is very plentifull upon those coasts: for the trade and interdeale of Sea-coast Nations one with another, wor∣keth more civilitie and good fashions, (all Sea men being naturally desirous of new fashions,) then amongst the Inland folke, which are seldome seene of forrainers; yet some of such as I have noted, I will recount unto you. And first I will for the better credit of the rest, shew you one out of their Statutes, among which it is enacted, that no man shall weare his beard onely on the upper lip, shaving all his Chinne. And this was the auncient manner of the Spaniards, as yet it is of all the Mahometans to cut off all their beards close, save onelie their Muschachios, which they weare long. And the cause of this use, was for that they being bred in a hot countrey, found much haire on their faces and other parts to be noyous unto them: for which cause they did cut it most away, like as contrarily all other nations brought up in cold countryes, doe use to nourish their haire, to keepe them the warmer, which was the cause that the Scythians and Scottes wore Glibbes (as I shewed you) to keepe their heads warme, and long beards to defend their face, from cold. From them also (I thinke) came saffron shirts and smocks, which was devised by them in those hote Countryes, where saffron is very common and rife, for avoy∣ding that evill which commeth by much sweating, and long wearing of Linnen: Also the Woemen amongst the old Spaniards had the charge of all houshold affaires, both at home and abroad, (as Boemus writeth) though now the Spaniards use it quite otherwise. And so have the Irish weomen the trust and care of all things, both at home, and in the field. Likewise round leather Targets is the Spanish fashion, who used it (for the most part) painted, which in Ireland they use also in many places, coloured after their rude fashion. Moreover the man∣ner of their Woemens riding on the wrong side of the horse, I meane with their faces towards the right side, as the Irish use, is (as they say) old Spanish, and some say African, for amongst them the woemen (they say) use so to ride. Also the deepe smocke sleive, which the Irish women use, they say was old Spanish, and is used yet in Barbary: and yet that should seeme rather to be an old English fashion, for in Ar∣mory the fashion of the Manche, which is given in Armes, by many being indeede nothing else but a sleive, is fashioned much like to that sleive. And that Knights in auncient times used to weare their Mi∣stresses or Loves sleive, upon their Armes, as appeareth by that which is written of Sir Launcelot, that he wore the sleive of the faire maide of Asteloth in a Tourney, whereat Queene Gueneuer was much dis∣pleased.

Eudox.

Your conceipt is good, and well fitting for things so far

growne from certainty of knowledge and learning, onely upon like∣ly-hoods and conjectures. But have you any customes remaining from the Gaules or Brittaines?

Iren.

I have observed a few of either; and who will better search into them, may finde more. And first the profession of their Bardes was (as Caesar writeth) usuall amongst the Gaules, and the same was al∣so common amongst the Brittans, and is not yet altogether left off, with the Welsh which are their posterity. For all the fashions of the Gaules and Brittaines, as he testifieth, were much like. The long darts came also from the Gaules, as you may read in the same Caesar, and in Io: Boemus. Likewise the said Io: Boemus writeth, that the Gaules used Swords a handfull broad, and so doe the Irish now. Also they used long Wicker sheilds in Battaile that should cover their whole bo∣dies, and so doe the Northerne Irish. But I have not seene such fashio∣ned Targets used in the Southerne parts, but onely amongst the Nor∣therne people, and Irish-Scottes, I doe thinke that they were brought in rather by the Scythians, then by the Gaules. Also the Gaules used to drinke their enemyes blood, and painte themselves therewith. So al∣so they write, that the old Irish were wont, and so have I seene some of the Irish doe, but not their enemyes, but freinds blood. As namely at the execution of a notable Traytor at Limericke, called Murrogh O-Brien, I saw an old woman, which was his foster mother, take up his head▪ whilst he was quartered, and sucked up all the blood that runne thereout, saying, that the Earth was not worthy to drinke it, and therewith also steeped her face and breast, and tore her haire, cry∣ing out and shreeking most terribly.

Eudox.

You have very well runne thorough such customes as the Irish have derived from the first old Nations which inhabited the land: namely the Scythians, the Spaniards, the Gaules, & the Brittaines. It now remaineth that you take in hand, the customes of the old English which are amongst the Irish: Of which I doe not thinke that you shall have much cause to finde fault with, considering that by the English, most of the old bad Irish customes were abolished, and more civill fashions brought in their stead.

Iren.

You thinke otherwise Eudox. then I doe, for the cheifest abuses which are now in that Realme, are growne from the English, and some of them are now much more lawlesse and licentious then the very wilde Irish: so that as much care, as was then by them had to reforme the Irish, so and much more, must now bee used to reforme them, so much time doth alter the manners of men.

Eudox.

That seemeth very strange, which you say, that men should so much degenerate from their first natures, as to growe wilde.

Iren.

So much can liberty and ill examples doe.

Eudox.

What liberty had the English there, more then they had here at home? were not the lawes planted amongst them at the first and had they not Governours to curbe and keepe them still in

awe and obedience?

Iren.

They had, but it was for the most part, such as did more hurt then good, for they had governours for the most part of them∣selves, and commonly out of the two families of the Geraldines and Butlers, both adversaries and corrivales one against the other. Who though for the most part they were but Deputies under some of the Kings of Englands Sonnes, Brethren, or other neare kinsmen, who were the Kings Lieutenants, yet they swayed so much, as they had all the Rule, and the others, but the title. Of which Butlers and Geraldynes, albeit (I must confesse) there were very brave and worthy men, as al∣so of other the Peeres of that Realme, made Lo: Deputies, and Lo: Iustices at sundry times, yet thorough greatnes of their late con∣quests and seignories they grew insolent, and bent both that regall authority, and also their private powers, one against another, to the utter subversion of themselves, and strengthning of the Irish againe. This you may read plainely discovered by a Letter written from the Cittizens of Corke out of Ireland, to the Earle of Shrewsbury then in England, and remaining yet upon record, both in the Towre of Lon∣don, and also among the Chronicles of Ireland. Wherein it is by them complained, that the English Lords and Gentlemen, who then had great possessions in Ireland, began thorough pride and insolency, to make private warres one against another, and when either part was weak, they would wage & draw in the Irish to take their part, by w^ch meanes they both greatly incouraged, and inabled the Irish, which till that time, had beene shut up within the mountaines of Slewlogher, and weakened and disabled themselves, insomuch that their revenues were wonderfully impaired, and some of them which are there rec∣koned to have been able, to have spent 12. or 1300. pounds per annū, of old rent (that I may say no more) besides their Commodities of Creekes and havens, were now scarce able to dispend the third part. From which disorder, and through other huge calamities, which have come upon them thereby, they are almost now growne like the Irish, I meane of such English, as were planted above towards the West, for the English pale hath preserved it selfe, thorogh nearenes of the state in reasonable civilitie, but the rest which dwelt in Connaght and in Mounster, which is the sweerest soyle of Ireland, and some in Leinster and Vlster, are degenerate, yea, and some of them have quite shaken off their English names, and put on Irish that they might bee altogether Irish.

Eudox.

Is it possible that any should so farre growe out of frame that they should in so short space, quite forget their Countrey and their owne names: that is a most dangerous Lethargie, much worse then that of Messala Coruinus, who being a most learned man, tho∣rough sickenesse forgat his owne name. But can you count us any of this kinde?

Iren:

I cannot but by report of the Irish themselves, who report, that the ** 1.3 Mac-mahons in the north, were aunciently English, to wit,

descended from the Fitz Vrsula's, which was a noble family in Eng∣land, and that the same appeareth by the signification of their Irish names: Likewise that the* 1.4 Mac-swynes, now in Vlster, were auncient∣ly of the Veres in England, but that they themselves, for hatred of En∣glish, so disguised their names.

Eudox.

Could they ever conceive any such dislike of their owne naturall Countryes, as that they would bee ashamed of their name, and byte at the dugge from which they sucked life?

Iren.

I wote well there should be none, but proud hearts doe of∣tentimes (like wanton Colts) kicke at their Mothers, as we read Al∣cibiades and Themistocles did, who being banished out of Athens, fled unto the Kings of Asia, and there stirred them up to warre against their Country, in which warres they themselves were Cheifetaines. So they say did these Mac-swines and Mac-mahons, or rather Veres and Fitz Vrsulaes, for private despight, turne themselves against Eng∣land. For at such time as Robert Vere Earle of Oxford, was in the Ba∣rons Warres against King Richard the second, through the mallice of the Peeres, banished the Realme and proscribed, he with his kinsman Fitz Vrsula fled into Ireland, where being prosecuted, and afterwards in England put to death, his kinsman there remaining behinde in Ire∣land rebelled, and conspiring with the Irish, did quite cast off both their English name and alleagiance, since which time they have so re∣mained still, and have since beene counted meere Irish. The very like is also reported of the Mac-swines, Mac-mahones, and Mac-Shehies of Mounster, how they likewise were aunciently English, and old fol∣lowers to the Earle of Desmond, untill the raigne of King Edward the fourth. At which time the Earle of Desmond that then was, called Thomas, being through false subornation (as they say) of the Queene for some offence by her against him conceived, brought to his death at * 1.5 Tredagh most unjustly, notwithstanding that he was a very good and sound subject to the King: Thereupon all his Kinsemen of the Ge∣raldines, which then was a mighty family in Mounster, in revenge of that huge wrong, rose into Armes against the King, and utterly re∣nounced and forsooke all obedience to the Crowne of England, to whom the said Mac••swines, Mac-shehies, and Mac-mahones, being then servants and followers, did the like, and have ever sithence so conti∣nued. And with them (they say) all the people of Mounster went out, and many other of them which were meere English, thenceforth joy∣ned with the Irish against the King, and termed themselves very Irish, taking on them Irish habits and customes, which could never since be cleane wyped away, but the contagion hath remained still amongst their posterityes. Of which sort (they say) be most of the surnames which end in an, as Hernan, Shinan, Mungan, &c. the which now ac∣count themselves naturall Irish. Other great houses there bee of the English in Ireland, which thorough licentious conversing with the Irish, or marrying, or fostering with them, or lacke of meete nurture, or other such unhappy occasions, have degenerated from their aun∣cient

dignities, and are now growne as Irish, as O. Hanlons breech, as the proverbe there is.

Eudox.

In truth this which you tell is a most shamefull hearing, and to be reformed with most sharpe censures: in so great personages to the terrour of the meaner: for if the Lords and cheife men dege∣nerate, what shall be hoped of the peasants, and baser people. And hereby sure you have made a faire way unto your selfe, to lay open the abuses of their evill customes, which you have now next to de∣clare▪ the which no doubt, but are very bad being borrowed, from the Irish, as their apparell, their language, their riding, and many other the like.

Iren.

You cannot but hold them sure to be very uncivill, for were they at the best that they were of old, when they were brought in, they should in so long an alteration of time seeme very uncouth and strange. For it is to be thought, that the use of all England, (was in the raigne of Henry the second, when Ireland was planted with English) very rude and barbarous, so as if the same should be now used in Eng∣land by any, it would seeme worthy of sharpe correction, and of new lawes for reformation, for it is but even the other day, since England grew civill: Therefore in counting the evill customes of the English there, I will not have regard, whether the beginning thereof were English or Irish, but will have respect onely to the inconvenience thereof. And first I have to finde fault with the abuse of language, that is, for the speaking of Irish among the English, which as it is un∣naturall that any people should love anothers language more then their owne, so it is very inconvenient, and the cause of many other evills.

Eudox.

It seemeth strange to me that the English should take more delight to speake that language, then their owne, whereas they should (mee thinkes) rather take scorne to acquaint their tongues thereto. For it hath ever beene the use of the Conquerour, to despise the language of the conquered, and to force him by all meanes to learne his. So did the Romans allwayes use, insomuch that there is al∣most no Nation in the world, but is sprinckled with their language. It were good therefore (me seemes) to search out the originall cause of this evill, for the same being discovered, a redresse thereof will the more easily be provided: for (I thinke) it very strange, that the English being so many, and the Irish so few, as they then were left, the ••ewer should draw the more unto their use.

Iren.

I suppose that the cheife cause of bringing in the Irish lan∣guage, amongst them, was specially their fostering▪ and marrying with the Irish, the which are two most dangerous infections, for first the childe that sucketh the milke of the nurse, must of necessity learne his first speach of her, the which being the first inured to his tongue, is ever after most pleasing unto him, insomuch as though hee after∣wards be taught English, yet the smacke of the first will allwayes a∣bide with him, and not onely of the speach, but also of the manners

and conditions. For besides that, yong Children be like Apes, which will affect and imitate what they see done before them, especially by their nurses whom they love so well, they moreover drawe into themselves, together with their sucke, even the nature and dispositi∣on of their nurses: for the minde followeth much the temperature of the body: and also the words are the image of the minde, so as they proceeding from the minde, the minde must needes be affected with the words. So that the speach being Irish, the heart must needes bee Irish▪ for out of the abundance of the heart, the tongue speaketh. The next is the marrying with the Irish, which how dangerous a thing it is in all common-wealthes, appeareth to every simplest sence, and though some great ones have perhaps used such matches with their Vassals, and have of them neverthelesse raised worthy issue, as Tela∣mon did with Termessa, Alexander the Great with Roxane, and Iulius Caesar with Cleopatra, yet the example is so perillous, as it is not to be adventured: for in stead of those few good, I could count unto them infinite many evill. And indeed how can such matching succeede well, seeing that commonly the childe taketh most of his nature of the Mother, besides speach, manners, and inclynation, which are (for the most part) agreeable to the conditions of their mothers: for by them they are first framed and fashioned, so as what they receive once from them, they will hardly ever after forgoe. Therefore are these evill customes of fostering and marrying with the Irish, most carefully to be restrayned: for of them two, the third evill that is the custome of language, (which I spake of,) cheifly proceedeth.

Eudox.

But are there not lawes already provided, for avoyding of this evill▪

Iren.

Yes I thinke there be, but as good never a whit as never the better, for what doe Statutes availe without penalties, or lawes with∣out charge of execution? for so there is another like law enacted a∣gainst wearing of the Irish apparell, but neverthemore is it observed by any, or executed by them that have the charge: for they in their private discretions thinke it not fit to bee forced upon the poore wretches of that Country, which are not worth the price of English apparell, nor expedient to be practised against the abler sort, by rea∣son that the country (say they) doth yeeld no better, and were there better to be had, yet these were fitter to be used, as namely the mantle in travailing, because there be no Innes where meete bedding may be had, so that his mantle serves him then for a bed. The leather quil∣ted Iacke in journeying and in camping, for that it is fittest to be un∣der his shirt of Male, and for any occasion of suddaine service, as there happen many, to cover his trouse on horsebacke. The great linnen Roll, which the Women weare, to keepe their heads warme, after cutting their haire, which they use in any sickenesse. Besides their thicke folded linnen shirts, their long sleived smocks, their halfe slei∣ved coates, their silken fillets, and all the rest: they will devise some colour for, either of necessity, or of antiquity, or of comelynesse.

Eudox.

But what colour soever they alledge, mee thinkes it not expedient, that the execution of a Law once ordayned, should be left to the discretion of the Iudge, or Officer, but that without partialitie, or regard, it should be fulfilled aswell on English, as Irish.

Iren.

But they thinke this precisenes in reformation of apparell, not to be so materiall, or greatly pertinent.

Eudox.

Yes surely but it is: for mens apparell is commonly made according to their conditions, & their conditions are oftentimes go∣verned by their garments: for the person that is gowned, is by his gowne put in minde of gravitie, and also restrained from lightnes, by the very unaptnesse of his weed. Therefore it is written by Aristotle, That when Cyrus had overcome the Lydians that were a warlike nati∣on, and devised to bring them to a more peaceable life, hee changed their apparell & musick, and in stead of their short warlike coat, cloa∣thed them in long garments like women, and in stead of their war∣like musick, appointed to them certaine lascivious layes, and loose Iiggs, by which in short space their mindes were so mollified and a∣bated, that they forgot their former fiercenesse, & became most ten∣der & effeminate, whereby it appeareth, that there is not a little in the garment to the fashioning of the minde and conditions. But be these which you have described, the fashions of the Irish weedes?

Iren.

No: all these which I have rehearsed to you, bee not Irish garments, but English; for the quilted leather Iack is old English: for it was the proper weed of the horseman, as you may read in Chaucer, when he describeth Sir Thopas apparell and Armour, as hee went to fight against the Gyant, in his robe of Shecklaton, which is that kind of guilded leather with which they use to imbroyder their Irish Iac∣kets. And there likewise by all that description, you may see the very fashion and manner of the Irish horseman most truely set forth in his long hose, his ryding shooes of costly Cordwaine, his hacqueton, & his haberion, with all the rest thereunto belonging.

Eudox.

I surely thought that the manner had beene Irish, for it is farre differing from that we have now, as also all the furniture of his horse, his strong brasse bit, his slyding reynes, his shanke pil∣lion without stirruppes, his manner of mounting, his fashion of ry∣ding, his charging of his speare aloft above head, the forme of his speare.

Iren.

No sure; they be native English, and brought in by the En∣glishmen first into Ireland: neither is the same accounted an uncome∣ly manner of ryding: for I have heard some great warriours say, that in all the services which they had seene abroad in forraine Countreyes, they never saw a more comely man then the Irish man, nor that commeth on more bravely in his charge, neither is his manner of mounting unseemely, though hee lacke stirruppes, but more ready then with stirruppes; for in his getting up, his horse is still going, whereby hee gayneth way. And therefore the

stirrup was called so in scorne, as it were a stay to get up, being derived of the olde English word Sty, which is, to get up, or mounte.

Eudox.

It seemeth then that you finde no fault with this manner of ryding, why then would you have the quilted Iacke laide away?

Iren.

I doe not wish it to be laide away; but the abuse thereof to be put away; for being used to the end that it was framed, that is, to be worne in warre under a shirt of Mayle, it is allowable, as also the shirt of Mayle, and all his other furniture: but to be worne daylie at home, and in townes and civile places, it is a rude habite and most un∣comely, seeming like a players painted coate.

Eudox.

But it is worne (they say) likewise of Irish Foot∣men, how doe you allow of that? for I should thinke it very un∣seemely.

Iren.

No, not as it is used in warre, for it is worne then likewise of footmen under their shirts of mayle, the which footmen they call Galloglasses, the which name doth discover them also to be auncient English: for Gall-ogla signifies an English servitour or yeoman. And he being so armed in a long shirt of Mayle downe to the calfe of his leg, with a long broad Axe in his hand, was then Pedes gravis ar∣maturae, (and was insteed of the armed footeman that now wea∣reth a Corslet,) before the Corslet was used, or almost inven∣ted.

Eudox.

Then him belike you likewise allow in your straite refor∣mation of old customes.

Iren.

Both him and the Kerne also, (whom onely I take to bee the proper Irish Souldier) can I allow, so that they use that habite and custome of theirs in the warres onely, when they are led forth to the service of their Prince, and not usually at home, and in civile places, and besides doe laye aside the evill and wilde uses which the Galloglasse and Kerne doe use in their common trade of life.

Eudox.

What be those?

Iren.

Marrie those bee the most barbarous and loathly condi∣tions of any people (I thinke) under heaven: for from the time that they enter into that course, they doe use all the beastly beha∣viour that may bee, they oppresse all men, they spoile aswell the subject, as the enemy; they steale, they are cruell and bloodie, full of revenge, and delighting in deadly execution, licentious, swearers, and blasphemers, common ravishers of woemen, and murtherers of chil∣dren.

Eudox.

These bee most villainous conditions, I marvaile then that they be ever used or imployed, or almost suffered to live; what good can there then be in them?

Iren.

Yet sure they are very valiaunt, and hardie, for the most part great indurers of colde, labour, hunger, and all

hardnesse, very active and strong of hand, very swift of foot, very vi∣gilant and circumspect in their enterprises, very present in perils, very great scorners of death.

Eudox.

Truely by this that you say, it seemes that the Irishman is a very brave Souldier.

Iren.

Yea surely, in that rude kinde of service, hee beareth himselfe very couragiously. But when hee commeth to experience of service abroad, or is put to a peece, or a pike, hee maketh as worthie a Souldiour as any Nation hee meeteth with. But let us (I pray you) turne againe to our discourse of evill customes amongst the Irish.

Eudox.

Me thinkes, all this which you speake of, concerneth the customes of the Irish very materially, for their uses in warre are of no small importance to bee considered, aswell to reforme those which are evill, as to confirme and continue those which are good. But fol∣low you your owne course, and shew what other their customes you have to dislike of.

Iren.

There is amongst the Irish a certaine kind of people, called Bardes, which are to them in steed of Poets, whose profession is to set foorth the praises or dispraises of men in their Poems or Rymes, the which are had in so high regard and estimation amongst them, that none dare displease them for feare to runne into reproach tho∣rough their offence, and to bee made infamous in the mouthes of all men. For their verses are taken up with a generall applause, and usually sung at all Feasts and meetings, by certaine other persons, whose proper function that is, who also receive for the same, great rewards and reputation amongst them.

Eudox.

Doe you blame this in them which I would otherwise have thought to have beene worthy of good accompt, and rather to have beene maintained and augmented amongst them, then to have beene disliked, for I have reade that in all ages, Poets have beene had in speciall reputation, and that (mee thinkes) not without great cause; for besides their sweete inventions, and most wittie laies, they have alwayes used to set foorth the praises of the good and vertuous, and to beate downe and disgrace the bad and vitious. So that many brave yong mindes, have oftentimes thorough hearing the praises and famous Eulogies of worthie men sung and reported unto them, beene stirred up to affect the like commendations, and so to strive to the like deserts. So they say that the Lacedemonians were more excited to desire of honour, with the excellent verses of the Poet Tirtaeus, then with all the exhortations of their Captaines, or authority of their Rulers and Magistrates.

Iren.

It is most true, that such Poets as in their writings doe labour to better the manners of men, and thorough the sweete baite of their numbers, to steale into the young Spirits a de∣sire of honour and vertue, are worthy to bee had in great respect.

But these Irish Bardes are for the most part of another minde, and so farre from instructing yong men in morall discipline, that they them∣selves doe more deserve to bee sharpely disciplined, for they sel∣dome use to choose unto themselves the doings of good men for the Arguments of their Poems, but whomsoever they finde to be most licentious of life, most bolde and lawlesse in his doings, most dangerous and desperate in all parts of disobedience and rebellious disposition, him they set up and glorifie in their Rithmes, him they praise to the people, & to yong men make an example to follow

Eudox.

I marvaile what kinde of speeches they can finde, or what face they can put on, to praise such bad persons as live so lawleslie and licentiouslie upon stealthes and spoyles, as most of them doe, or how can they thinke that any good mind will applaude or approve the same.

Iren.

There is none so bad Eudoxus, but shall finde some to favour his doings, but such licentious partes as these, tending for the most part to the hurt of the English, or maintenance of their owne lewde libertie, they themselves being most desirous therof, doe most allow. Besides this, evill things being decked and attired with the gay attire of goodly words, may easily deceive, & carry away the affection of a yong mind, that is not well stayed, but desirous by some bolde ad∣ventures, to make proofe of himselfe, for being (as they all be broght up) idlely, without awe of Parents, without precepts of masters, and without feare of offence, not being directed, nor imployed in any course of life, which may carry them to vertue, will easily be drawne to follow such as any shall set before them, for a yong minde cannot rest, if he be not still busied in some goodnesse, he will finde himselfe such businesse, as shall soone busie all about him. In which, if he shall find any to praise him, & to give him encouragement, as those Bardes and Rythmers doe for little reward, or a share of a stolne Cow, then waxeth he most insolent and halfe madde with the love of himselfe, & his owne lewd deeds. And as for words to set forth such lewdnes, it is not hard for them to give a goodly and painted shew thereunto, borrowed even from the praises which are proper to vertue it selfe. As of a most notorious thiefe & wicked out-law, which had lived all his life-time of spoyles & robberies, one of their Bardes in his praise will say, that he was none of the idle milke-sops that was brought up by the fire side, but that most of his dayes he spent in armes & valiant enterprises, that he did never eat his meat, before he had won it with his sword, that he lay not all night slugging in a cabbin under his mantle, but used commonly to keepe others waking to defend their lives, and did light his candle at the flames of their houses, to leade him in the darkenesse: That the Day was his Night, and the Night his Day, that he loved not to be long woing of wenches to yeeld to him, but where he came, he tooke by force the spoyle of other mens love, and left but lamentation to their lovers; that his musick was not the harpe, nor layes of love, but the cryes of people, and clashing of

Armor: & finally, that he died not bewayled of many, but made ma∣ny waile when he died, that dearely bought his death. Doe you not thinke (Eudoxus) that many of these praises might be applyed to men of best deserts, yet are they all yeelded to a most notable Traytor, & amongst some of the Irish not smally accounted of. For the song, when it was first made and sung to a person of high degree there, was bought (as their manner is) for forty crownes.

Eudox.

And well worthy sure. But tell me (I pray you) have they any Art in their compositions? or bee they any thing wittie or well favoured as Poemes should be?

Iren.

Yea truely, I have caused divers of them to be translated un∣to me, that I might understand them, & surely they savoured of sweet wit and good invention, but skilled not of the goodly ornaments of Poetry: yet were they sprinkled with some pretty flowres of their naturall device, which gave good grace & comlinesse unto them, the which it is great pitty to see so abused; to the gracing of wickednes & vice, which with good usage would serve to adorne & beautifie ver∣tue. This evill custome therfore needeth reformation. And now next after the Irish Kerne, me thinks the Irish hors-boyes would come well in order, the use of which, though necessity (as times now be) do en∣force; yet in the thorough reformation of that Realme they should be cut off. For the cause why they are now to be permitted, is want of convenient Innes for lodging of travailers on horsback, & of hostlers to tend their horses by the way. But when things shalbe reduced to a better passe, this needeth specially to be reformed. For out of the fry of these rake-hell horse-boyes, growing up in knavery and villainy, are their Kerne continually supplyed & maintained. For having been once brought up an idle horse-boy, he will never after fall to labour, but is only made fit for the halter. And these also (the which is one foule over-sight) are for the most part bred up amongst the English∣men, of whom learning to shoote in a piece, and being made acquain∣ted with all the trades of the English, they are afterwards when they become Kerne, made more fit to cut their throats. Next to this, there is another much like; but much more lewde and dishonest, and that is, of their Carrows, which is a kinde of people that wander up and downe to Gentle-mens houses, living onely upon Cardes and Dice, the which, though they have little or nothing of their owne, yet will they play for much money, which if they winne, they waste most lightly, and if they lose, they pay as slenderly, but make re∣compence with one stealth or another, whose onely hurt is not that they themselves are idle Lossells, but that thorough gaming, they draw others to like lewdnesse and idlenesse. And to these may bee added another sort of like loose fellowes, which doe passe up and downe amongst Gentlemen, by the name of Iesters, but are (indeed) notable rogues, & partakers not onely of many stealthes, by setting forth other mens goods to be stolne, but also privy to many traitrous practices, and common carryers of newes, with desire whereof you

would wonder how much the Irish are fed, for they use commonly to send up and downe to know newes, and if any meet with another, his second word is, what newes? Insomuch that hereof is tolde a prettie jest of a Frenchman, who having beene sometimes in Ireland, where he marked their great inquirie for newes, and meeting after∣wards in France an Irishman, whom hee knew in Ireland, first saluted him, and afterwards said thus merrily: O Sir, I pray you tell me of curtesie, have you heard any thing of the newes, that you so much in∣quired for in your Countrey?

Eudox.

This argueth sure in them a great desire of innovation, & therfore these occasions which nourish the same, must be taken away, as namely those Iesters, Carrowes, Mona-shutes, & all such straglers, for whom (me thinkes) the short riddance of a Marshall, were meeter then an ordinance or prohibitiō to restrain thē. Therfore (I pray you) leave all this rabblement of Runnagates, & passe to other customes.

Iren.

There is a great use amongst the Irish, to make great assem∣blies together upon a rath or hill, there to parlie (as they say) about matters and wrongs betweene Township & Township, or one privat person and another. But well I wot, and true it hath beene oftentimes proved, that in their meetings many mischiefes have beene both pra∣ctised & wrought; for to them doe commonly resort all the scumme of the people, where they may meete and conferre of what they list, which else they could not doe without suspition, or knowledge of o∣thers. Besides at these meetings I have knowne divers times, that ma∣ny Englishmen, & good Irish subjects, have bin villainously murdered by moving one quarell or another against them. For the Irish neuer come to those Raths, but armed, whether on horse or on foot, which the English nothing suspecting, are then commonly taken at advantage like sheep in the pin-folde.

Eudox.

It may be (Irenaeus) that abuse may be in those meetings. But these round hills and square Bawnes which you see so strongly trenched and throwne up, were (they say) at first ordained for the same purpose, that people might assemble themselves therein, and therefore aunciently they were called Talk-motes, that is, a place of people, to meete or talke of any thing that concerned any difference betweene parties and Towneships, which seemeth yet to me very re∣quisite.

Iren.

You say very true Eudoxus, the first making of these high hils, were at first indeed to very good purpose for people to meet, but howsoever the times when they were first made, might well serve to good occasions, as perhaps they did then in England, yet things being since altered, & now Ireland much differing from the state of England, the good use that then was of them, is now turned to abuse; for those hills wherof you speak, were (as you may gather by reading) appoin∣ted for 2 special uses, & built by 2 several nations. The one is that w^ch you call Talk-motes, which were built by the Saxons, as the word be∣wraieth, for it signifieth in Saxon, a meeting of folk, & these are for the

most part in forme foure square, well intrenched, the others that were round, were cast up by the Danes, as the name of them doth be∣token, for they are called Danes-Rathes, that is, hills of the Danes, the which were by them devised, not for treaties and parlies, but ap∣pointed as fortes for them to gather unto, in troublesome time, when any trouble arose, for the Danes being but a few in comparison of the * 1.6 Saxons (in England) used this for their safety, they made those small round hills, so strongly fenced, in every quarter of the hundred, to the end that if in the night, or any other time, any troublous cry or uproare should happen, they might repaire with all speed unto their owne fort, which was appointed for their quarter, and there remaine safe, till they could assemble themselves in greater strength, for they were made so strong with one small entrance, that whosoever came thither first, were he one or two, or like few, he or they might there rest safe, and defend themselves against many, till more succour came unto them: and when they were gathered to a sufficient number, they marched to the next fort, and so forward till they met with the pe∣rill, or knew the occasions thereof. But besides these two sorts of hills, there were anciently divers others, for some were raised, where there had been a great battle fought, as a memory or Trophie there∣of, others, as monuments of burialls, of the carcasses of all those that were slaine in any field, upon whom they did throwe such round mounts, as memorialls of them, and sometimes did cast up great heapes of stones, (as you may read the like in many places of the Scripture) and other whiles, they did throw up many round heapes of earth in a circle, like a garland, or pitch many long stones on end in compasse, every of which (they say) betokened some person of Note, there slaine and buried, for this was their auncient custome, be∣fore Christianity came in amongst them, that Church-yards were inclosed.

Eudox.

You have very well declared the originall of their mounts and great stones incompassed, which some vainely terme, the ould Gyants Trevetts, and thinke that those huge stones, would not else be brought into order or reared up, without the strength of Gyants. And others as vainely thinke that they were never placed there by mans hand, or Art, but onely remained there so since the beginning, and were afterwards discovered by the deluge, and laide open as then by the washing of the waters, or other like casualty. But let them dreame their owne Imaginations to please themselves, you have satisfied me much better, both for that I see some confirmation thereof in the holy writt, and also remember that I have read in many Historyes and Chronicles, the like mounts and stones, oftentimes mentioned.

Iren.

There be many great authorities (I assure you) to prove the same, but as for these meetings on hills, whereof we were speaking, it is very inconvenient that any such should be permitted.

Eudox.

But yet it is very needefull (me thinkes) for many other purposes, as for the countryes to gather together, when there is any

imposition to be laide upon them, to the which they then may all a∣gree at such meetings, to devide upon themselves, according to their holdings and abilities. So as if at these assemblies, there be any Offi∣cers, as Constables, Bayliffes, or such like amongst them, there can be no perill, or doubt of such bad practises.

Iren:

Neverthelesse, dangerous are such assemblies, whether for Cesse or ought else, the Constables and Officers, being also of the Irish, and if any of the English happen to be there, even to them they may prove perillous. Therefore for avoyding of all such evill occa∣sions, they were best to be abolished.

Eudox.

But what is that which you call Cesse, it is a word sure unused amongst us heere, therefore (I pray you) expound the same?

Iren.

Cesse is none other then that which your selfe called impo∣sition, but it is in a kinde unacquainted perhaps unto you. For there are Cesses of sundry sorts, one is the cessing of Souldiours upon the Countrey: For Ireland being a Countrey of warre (as it is handled) and allwayes full of Souldiours, they which have the government, whether they finde it the most ease to the Queenes purse, or the most ready meanes at hand, for victualing of the Souldiour, or that neces∣sity inforceth them thereunto, doe scatter the Army abroad in the Countrey, and place them in Villages to take their victuals of them, at such vacant times as they lye not in Campe, nor are otherwise im∣ployed in service. Another kinde of Cesse, is the imposing of provi∣sion; for the Governors house-keeping, which though it be most ne∣cessary, and be also (for avoyding of all the evills formerly therein used) lately brought to a composition, yet it is not without great in∣conveniences, no lesse then here in England, or rather much more. The like Cesse is also charged upon the Countrey sometimes for victual∣ling of the Souldiours, when they lye in Garrison, at such times as there is none remayning in the Queenes store, or that the same cannot be conveniently conveyed to their place of Garrison: But these two are not easily to be redressed when necessity thereto compelleth, but as for the former, as it is not necessary, so is it most hurtfull and of∣fensive to the poore country, and nothing convenient for the Souldi∣ours themselves, who during their lying at Cesse, use all kinde of outragious disorder and villany, both towards the poore men, which victuall and lodge them, as also to all the Country round about them, whom they abuse, oppresse, spoyle, & afflict by all the meanes they can invent, for they will not onely, not content themselves with such victuals as their hostes, nor yet as the place, perhaps affords, but they will have other meate provided for them, and Aqua vitae sent for, yea and money besides laide at their trenchers, which if they want, then about the house they walke with the wretched poore man and his silly wife, who are glad to purchase their peace with any thing. By which vile manner of abuse, the countrey people, yea and the very English which dwell abroad and see, and sometimes feele

this outrage, growe into great detestation of the Souldiours, and thereby into hatred of the very government, which draweth upon them such evills: And therefore this you may also ioyne unto the former evill customes, which we have to reprove in Ireland.

Eudox.

Truly this is one not the least, and though the persons by whom it is used, be of better note then the former roguish sort, which you reckoned, yet the fault (me thinkes) is no lesse worthy of a mar∣shall.

Iren.

That were a harder course Eudoxus, to redresse every abuse by a marshall, it would seeme to you very evill surgery to cut off e∣very unsound or sicke part of the body, which being by other due meanes recovered, might afterwards doe very good service to the body againe, and haply helpe to save the whole: Therefore I thinke better that some good salve for the redresse of the evill bee sought forth, then the least part suffered to perish: but hereof wee have to speake in another place. Now we will proceede to other like defects, amongst which there is one generall inconvenience, which raigneth almost throughout all Ireland: that is, the Lords of land and free-hol∣ders, doe not there use to set out their land in farme, or for tearme of yeares, to their Tennants, but onely from yeare to yeare, and some during pleasure, neither indeede will the Irish Tennant or husband∣man otherwise take his land, then so long as he list himselfe. The rea∣son hereof in the Tennant is, for that the Land-lords there, use most shamefully to racke their Tennants, laying upon them Coigny and Li∣very at pleasure, & exacting of them (besides his Covenants) what he pleaseth. So that the poore husbandman either dare not binde him∣selfe to him, for longer tearme, or thinketh by his continuall liberty of change, to keepe his Land-lord the rather in awe from wronging of him. And the reason why the Land-lord will no longer covenant with him, is, for that he dayly looketh after change and alteration, and hovereth in expectation of new worlds.

Eudox.

But what evill commeth hereby to the Common-wealth or what reason is it that any Land-lord should not set, nor any Ten∣nant take his land, as himselfe list?

Iren.

Marry the evils which commeth hereby is great, for by this meanes, both the Land-lord thinketh that he hath his Tennant more at commaund, to follow him into what action soever hee shall enter, and also the Tennant being left at his liberty is fit for every occasion of change that shall be offered by time: and so much also the more ready and willing is he to runne into the same, for that hee hath no such state in any his houlding, no such building upon any farme, no such coste imployed in fensing or husbanding the same, as might with-hold him from any such willfull course, as his Lords cause, or his owne lewde disposition may carry him unto. All which hee hath forborne, and spared so much expence, for that he had no firme estate in his Tenement, but was onely a Tennant at will or little more, and so at will may leave it. And this inconvenience may be reason enough

to ground any ordinance for the good of the Common-wealth, a∣gainst the private behoofe or will of any Landlord that shall refuse to graunt any such terme or estate unto his Tennant, as may tende to the good of the whole Realme.

Eudox.

Indeede (me thinkes) it is a great willfullnes in any such Land-lord to refuse to make any longer farmes unto their Tennants, as may, besides the generall good of the Realme, be also greatly for their owne profit and availe: For what reasonable man will not thinke that the Tenement shalbe made much better for the Lords behoofe, if the Tennant may by such good meanes bee drawne to build him∣selfe some handsome habitation thereon, to ditch and inclose his ground, to manure and husband it as good Farmours use. For when his Tennants terme shalbe expired: it will yeeld him in the renewing his lease, both a good fine, and also a better rent. And also it shall be for the good of the Tennant likewise, who by such buildings and in∣closures shall receive many benefits: first by the handsomenesse of his house, he shall take more comfort of his life, more safe dwelling, and a delight to keepe his said house neate and cleanely, which now be∣ing as they commonly are, rather swyne-styes, then houses; is the cheifest cause of his so beastly manner of life, and savage condition, lying and living together with his beast in one house, in one roome, in one bed, that is, cleane strawe, or rather a foule dunghill. And to all these other commodities, hee shall in sort time finde a greater added, that is his owne wealth and riches increased, and wonderfully inlar∣ged, by keeping his Cattle in inclosures, where they shall allwayes have fresh pasture, that now is all trampled and over-runne, warme covert, that now lyeth open to all weather, safe being, that now are continually filched and stolne.

Iren.

You have Eudoxus well accompted the commodities of this one good ordinance, amongst which, this that you named last is not the least, for all the other being most beneficiall to the Land-lord and Tennant. This cheifly redoundeth to the good of the Common-wealth, to have the land thus inclosed, and well fenced. For it is both a principall barre and impeachment unto theeves from stealing of cattle in the night, and also a gaule against all Rebels, and Outlawes, that shall rise up in any numbers against the governement, for the theife thereby shall have much adoe, first to bring forth, and after∣wards to drive away his stolne prey, but thorough the common high wayes, where he shall soone bee descryed and met withall: And the Rebell or open enemy, if any such shall happen, either at home, or from abroad, shall easily be found when he commeth forth, and also be well incountred withall by a few, in so straight passages and strong inclosures. This therefore when wee come to the reforming of all those evill customes before mentioned, is needefull to be remembred but now by this time (me thinkes) that I have well run thorough the evill uses which I have observed in Ireland. Neverthelesse I well note that there be many more, and infinitely many more in the pri∣vate

abuses of men. But these that are most generall, and tending to the hurt of the Common-weale, (as they have come to my remem∣brance) I have as breifly as I could rehearsed unto you. And there∣fore now I thinke best that we passe unto our third part, in which we noted inconveniences that are in Religion.

Eudox.

Surely you have very well handled these two former, and if yee shall as well goe thorough the third likewise, you shall merit a very good meed.

Iren.

Little have I to say of Religion, both because the parts thereof be not many, (it selfe being but one) and my selfe have not much beene conversant in that calling: but as lightly passing by I have seene or heard: Therefore the fault which I finde in Religion is but one, but the same is universall, thoroughout all that country, that is, that they be all Papists by their profession, but in the same so blindly and brutishly informed, (for the most part) that not one a∣mongst a hundred knoweth any ground of Religion, or any Article of his faith, but can perhaps say his Pater noster or his Ave Maria, without any knowledge or understanding what one word thereof meaneth.

Eudox.

Is it not then a little blot to them that now hold the place of government, that they which now are in the light themselves, suf∣fer a people under their charge, to wallow in such deadly darke∣nesse.

Iren.

That which you blame Eudox. is not (I suppose) any fault of will in those godly fathers which have charge thereof, but the in∣convenience of the time and troublous occasions, wherewith that wretched Realme hath continually beene turmoyled; For instruction in Religion needeth quiet times, and ere we seeke to settle a sound discipline in the Clergy, we must purchase peace unto the Laity, for it is ill time to preach among swords, and most hard or rather impos∣sible it is to settle a good opinion in the mindes of men, for matters of Religion doubtfull, which have doubtlesse an evill opinion of us. For ere a new be brought in, the old must be removed.

Eudox.

Then belike it is meete that some fitter time be attended, that God send peace and quietnesse there in civill matters, before it be attempted in Ecclesiasticall. I would rather have thought that (as it is said) correction must first begin at the house of God, and that the care of the Soule, should have beene preferred before the care of the Body.

Iren.

Most true Eudoxus, the care of the soule, and soule matters is to be preferred, before the care of the body, in consideration of the worthynesse thereof, but not till the time of reformation, for if you should know a wicked person dangerously sicke, having now both soule and body greatly diseased, yet both recoverable, would you not thinke it evill advertizement to bring the Preacher before the Phisitian, for if his body were neglected, it is like that his languishing soule being disquieted by his diseasefull body, would utterly refuse

and loath all spirituall comfort, but if his body were first recured, & broght to good frame, should there not then be found best time, to re∣cover the soule also. So it is in the state of a Realme: Therefore (as I said) it is expedient, first to settle such a course of government there, as thereby both civill disorders, and ecclesiasticall abuses may be re∣formed and amended, whereto needeth not any such great distance of times, as (you suppose) I require, but one joynt resolution for both, that each might second and confirme the other.

Eudox.

That we shall see when we come thereunto, in the meane time, I conceive thus much, as you have delivered, touching the ge∣nerall fault, which you suppose in Religion, to wit, that it is Popish, but doe you finde no particular abuses therein, nor in the ministers thereof?

Iren:

Yes verily, for what ever disorders you see in the Church of England, yee may finde there, and many more: Namely, grosse Symo∣ny, greedy covetousnesse, fleshly incontinency, carelesse sloath, and generally all disordered life in the common Clergy men: And be∣sides all these, they have their particular enormityes; For all Irish Priests, which now injoy the Church livings, they are in a manner meere lay men, saving that they have taken holy orders, but other∣wise they doe goe, and live like lay men, follow all kinde of husban∣dry, and other worldly affaires, as other Irish men doe. They neither read Scriptures, nor preach to the people, nor administer the Commu∣nion, but Baptisme they doe: for they Christen yet after the Popish fashion, onely they take the tithes and offerings, and gather what fruite else they may of their livings, the which they convert as badly and some of them (they say) pay as due tributes and shares of their li∣vings to their Bishops, (I speake of those which are Irish) as they re∣ceive them duely.

Eudox.

But is that suffered amongst them? It is wonder but that the Governours doe redresse such shamefull abuses.

Iren.

How can they, since they know them not? for the Irish Bi∣shops have their Clergy in such awe and subjection under them, that they dare not complaine of them, so as they may doe to them what they please, for they knowing their owne unworthynesse and incapa∣city, and that they are therefore still removeable at their Bishops will, yeeld what pleaseth him, and he taketh what he listeth: yea, and some of them whose Diocesses are in remote parts, somewhat out of the worlds eye, doe not at all bestow the Benefices, which are in their owne donation, upon any, but keepe them in their owne hands, and set their owne servants and horse-boyes to take up the Tithes and fruites of them, with the which some of them purchase great Lands, and build faire Castles upon the same. Of which abuse if any question be moved they have a very seemely colour and excuse, that they have no worthy Ministers to bestow them upon, but keepe them so bestowed for any such sufficient person, as any shall bring unto them.

Eudox.

But is there no law nor ordinance to meet with this mis∣chiefe? nor hath it never before beene looked into?

Iren.

Yes, it seemes it hath, for there is a Statute there enacted in Ireland, which seemes to have beene grounded upon a good mea∣ning, That whatsoever Englishman of good conversation and suffi∣ciencie, shall bee brought unto any of the Bishoppes, and nomina∣ted unto any living, within their Diocesse that is presently voyde, that he shall (without contradiction) be admitted thereunto before any Irish.

Eudox.

This is surely a very good Law, and well provided for this evill, whereof you speake, but why is not the same obser∣ved?

Iren.

I think it is well observed, and that none of the Bishops trans∣gresse the same, but yet it worketh no reformation thereof, for many defects. First there are no such sufficient English Ministers sent over as might be presented to an•• Bishop for any living, but the most part of such English as come over thither of themselves, are either unlear∣ned, or men of some bad note, for which they have forsaken England. So as the Bishop to whom they shalbe presented, may justly reject them as incapable and insufficient. Secondly, the Bishop himselfe is perhappes an Irish man, who being made Iudge by that Law, of the sufficiencie of the Ministers, may at his owne will, dislike of the Englishman, as unworthy in his opinion, and admit of any Irish, whom hee shall thinke more for his turne. And if hee shall at the instance of any Englishman of countenance there, whom hee will not displease, accept of any such English Minister as shall bee ••endered unto him, yet hee will under hand, carry such a hard hand over him, or by his Officers wring him so sore, that hee will soone make him weary of his poore living. Lastly, the Benefices themselves are so meane, and of so small profite in those Irish Countreyes, thorough the ill husbandrie of the Irish people which doe inhabite them, that they will not yeelde any competent maintainance for any honest Minister to live upon, scarcely to buy him a gowne. And were all this redressed (as happily it might bee) yet what good should any English Mini∣ster doe amongst them, by teaching or preaching to them, which ei∣ther cannot understand him, or will not heare him? Or what com∣fort of life shall he have, where his Parishioners are so insatiable, so intractable, so ill affected to him, as they usuall bee to all the English; or finally, how dare almost any honest Minister, that are peaceable civile men, commit his safetie to the handes of such Neighbours, as the boldest Captaines dare scarcely dwell by?

Eudox.

Little good then (I see) was by that Statute wrought, how ever well intended, but the reformation therof must grow high∣er, and be brought from a stronger ordinance, then the commaunde∣ment, or penaltie of a Law, which none dare informe or complain of

when it is broken; but have you any more of those abuses in the Clergy?

Iren.

I would perhappes reckon more, but I perceive my speech to grow too long, and these may suffise to judge of the ge∣nerall disorders which raigne amongst them; as for the particulars, they are too many to be reckoned. For the Clergy there (excepting the grave Fathers which are in high place about the State, and some few others which are lately planted in their * 1.7 new Col∣ledge) are generally bad, licentious, and most dis∣ordered.

Eudox.

You have then (as I suppose) gone tho∣rough those three first parts which you proposed unto your selfe, to wit, The Inconveniences which you ob∣served in the lawes, in the customes, and in the Religion of that land. The which (me thinkes) you have so thoroughly tou∣ched, as that nothing more remaineth to ••e spoken thereof.

Iren.

Not so thoroughly as you suppose, that nothing can re∣maine, but so generally as I purposed, that is, to lay open the gene∣rall evills of that Realme, which doe hinder the good reformation thereof, for to count the particular faults of private men, should be a worke too infinite, yet some there be of that nature, that though they be in private men, yet their evill reacheth to a generall hurt, as the ex∣tortion of Sheriffs, and their Sub-sheriffs & Bayliffes, the corruption of Victuallers, Cessors, and Purveyors, the disorders of Seneschalls, Captaines, and their Souldiers, and many such like: All which I will onely name here, that their reformation may bee mended in place where it most concerneth. But there is one very foule abuse, which by the way I may not omit, and that is in Captaines, who notwith∣standing that they are specially imployed to make peace thorough strong execution of warre, yet they doe so dandle their doings, & dal∣lie in the service to them committed, as if they would not have the enemy subdued, or utterly beaten downe, for feare lest afterwardes they should need imployment, & so be discharged of pay: For which cause some of them that are layde in garrison, doe so handle the mat∣ter, that they will doe no great hurt to the enemyes, yet for colour sake, some men they will kill, even halfe with the consent of the ene∣my, being persons either of base regard, or enemies to the enemy, whose heads eftsoones they send to the Governor for a commendati∣on of their great indevour, telling how weighty a service they per∣formed, by cutting off such and such dangerous Rebells.

Eudox.

Truely this is a prettie mockerie, and not to be permitted by the Governours.

Iren.

But how can the Govrrnour know readily what persons those were, & what the purpose of their killing was, yea & what will you say if the Captaines doe iustifie this their course by ensample of some of their Governours, which (under Benedicite, I doe tell it to you) doe practise the like sleight in their governments?

Eudox.

Is it possible? take heed what you say Irenaeus.

Iren.

To you onely Eudoxus, I doe tell it, and that even with great hearts griefe, and inward trouble of mind to see her Majestie so much abused by some who are put in speciall trust of those great affaires: Of which, some being martiall men, will not doe alwayes what they may for quieting of things, but will rather winke at some faults, and suffer them unpunished, lest they (having put all things in that assu∣rance of peace that they might) they should seeme afterwards not to be needed, nor continued in their governments with so great a charge to her Maiestie. And therefore they doe cunningly carry their course of government, and from one hand to another doe bandie the ser∣vice like a Tennis-Ball, which they will never strike quite away, for feare lest afterwards they should want.

Eudox.

Doe you speake of under Magistrates Irenaeus, or princi∣pall Governours?

Iren.

I doe speake of no particulars, but the truth may be found out by tryall and reasonable insight into some of their doings. And if I should say, there is some blame thereof in the principall Go∣vernours, I thinke I might also shew some reasonable proofe of my speech. As for example, some of them seeing the end of their government to draw nigh, and some mischiefes and trou∣blous practice growing up, which afterwardes may worke trouble to the next succeeding Governour, will not attempt the re∣dresse or cutting off thereof, either for feare they should leave the Realme unquiet at the end of their government, or that the next that commeth, should receive the same too quiet, and so happily winne more prayse thereof, then they before. And therefore they will not (as I said) seeke at all to represse that evill, but will either by graunting protection for a time, or holding some empar∣lance with the Rebell, or by treatie of Commissioners, or by other like devices, onely smother and keepe downe the flame of the mis∣chiefe, so as it may not breake out in their time of government, what comes afterwards they care not, or rather wish the worst. This course hath beene noted in some Governors.

Eudox.

Surely (Irenaeus) This if it were true, should bee worthy of an heavy iudgment: But it is hardly to bee thought, that any Go∣vernour should so much either envie the good of that Realme which is put into his hand, or defraude her Maiestie who trusteth him so much, or maligne his successour which shall possesse his place, as to suffer an evill to grow up, which he might timely have kept under, or perhaps to nourish it with coloured countenance, or such sinister meanes.

Iren.

I doe not certainely avouch so much (Eudoxus) but the sequele of things doth in a manner proove, and plainly speake so much, that the Governours usually are envious one of anothers greater glory, which if they would seeke to excell by better gover∣ning, it should bee a most laudable emulation. But they doe quite

otherwise. For this (as you may marke) is the common order of them, that who commeth next in place, will not follow that course of government, how ever good, which his predecessors held, either for disdaine of himselfe, or doubt to have his doings drowned in an other mans praise, but will straight take a way quite contrary to the former: As if the former thought (by keeping under the Irish) to re∣forme them: the next by discountenancing the English, will curry favour with the Irish, and so make his government seeme plausible, as having all the Irish at his commaund: But he that comes after, will perhappes follow neither the one nor the other, but will dandle the the one and the other in such sort, as hee will sucke sweete out of them both, and leave bitternesse to the poore Countrey, which if he that comes after shall seeke to redresse, he shall perhappes finde such crosses, as hee shall hardly bee able to beare, or doe any good that might worke the disgrace of his predecessors. Examples you may see hereof in the governours of late times sufficiently, and in o∣thers of former times more manifestly, w••en the government of that Realme, was committed sometimes to the Geraldines, as when the house of Yorke had the Crowne of England, sometimes to the Butlers, as when the house of Laencaster got the same. And other whiles, when an English Governour was appointed, hee perhaps found ene∣mies of both.

Eudox.

I am sorry to heare so much as you report, and now I be∣gin to conceive somewhat more of the cause of her continuall wret∣chednes then heeretofore I found, and wish that this inconvenience were well looked into, for sure (me thinkes) it is more weightie then all the former, and more hardly to be redressed in the governor, then in the governed, as a malady in a vitall part is more incurable then in an externall.

Iren.

You say very true; but now that we have thus ended all the abuses and inconveniences of that government which was our first part. It followeth now that we passe unto the second part, which was of the meanes to cure and redresse the same, which wee must labour to reduce to the first beginning thereof.

Eudox.

Right so Irenaeus: for by that which I have noted in all this your discourse, you suppose, that the whole ordinance and insti∣tution of that Realmes government, was both at first when it was placed, evill plotted, and also sithence thorough other over-sights, came more out of square to that disorder which it is now come unto, like as two indirect lines, the further that they are drawne out, the further they goe asunder.

Iren.

I doe see Eudoxus; and as you say, so thinke, that the longer that government thus continueth, in the worse course will the Re∣alme be, for it is all in vaine that they now strive and endeavour by faire meanes and peaceable plotts to redresse the same, without first remmooving all those inconveniences, and new framing (as it were) in the forge, all that is worne out of fashion: For all

other meanes will be but as lost labour, by patching up one hole to make many, for the Irish doe strongly hate and abhorre all reformati∣on and subjection to the English, by reason that having beene once subdued by them, they were thrust out of all their possessions. So as now they feare, that if they were againe brought under, they should bee likewise expelled out of all, which is the cause that they hate the English government, according to the saying, Quem metuunt oderunt: Therefore the reformation must now bee the strength of a greater power.

Eudox.

But me thinkes that might be by making of good lawes, and establishing of new Statutes, with sharpe penalties and punish∣ments, for amending of all that is presently amisse, and not (as you suppose) to beginne all as it were anew, and to alter the whole forme of the governement, which how dangerous a thing it is to attempt, you your selfe must needes confesse, and they which have the mana∣ging of the Realmes whole policy, cannot without great cause, feare and refraine, for all innovation is perillous, insomuch as though it bee meant for the better, yet so many accidents and fearefull e∣vents may come betweene, as that it may hazard the losse of the whole.

Iren.

Very true Eudoxus, all change is to be shunned, where the affaires stand in such sort, as that they may continue in quietnes, or be assured at all to abide as they are. But that in the Realme of Ireland we see much otherwise, for every day wee perceive the troubles growing more upon us, and one evill growing upon another, inso∣much as there is no part now sound or ascertained. but all have their cares upright, wayting when the watch-word shall come, that they should all arise generally into rebellion, and cast away the English subjection. To which there now little wanteth, for I thinke the word be already given, and there wanteth nothing but oportunitie, which truely is the death of one noble person, who being himselfe most stedfast to his soveraigne Queene, and his Countrey, coasting u∣pon the South Sea, stoppeth the ingate of all that evill which is looked for, and holdeth in all those which are at his becke, with the terrour of his greatnesse, and the assurance of his most immoveable loyaltie: And therefore where you thinke, that good and sound lawes might amend, and reforme things there amisse; you think sure∣ly amisse. For it is vaine to prescribe Lawes, where no man ca∣reth for keeping of them, nor feareth the daunger for breaking of them. But all the Realme is first to be reformed, and lawes are after∣wards to bee made for keeping and continuing it in that reformed estate.

Eudox.

How then doe you think is the reformation thereof to be begunne, if not by lawes and ordinances?

Iren.

Even by the sword, for all these evills must first be cut a∣way by a strong hand, before any good can bee planted, like as the corrupt braunches, and unwholesome boughes are first to bee

pruned, and the foule mosse cleansed and scraped away, before the tree can bring forth any good fruite.

Eudox.

Did you blame mee even now, for wishing of Kerne, Horse-boyes, and Carrowes, to be cleane cut off, as too violent a meanes, and doe you your selfe now prescribe the same medicine? Is not the Sword the most violent redresse that may bee used for any evill?

Iren.

It is so, but where no other remedie may bee devised, nor hope of recovery had, there must needes this violent meanes bee used. As for the loose kinde of people which you would have cut off, I blamed it, for that they might otherwise perhaps bee brought to good, as namely by this way which I set be∣fore you.

Eudox.

Is not your way all one with the former in effect, which you found fault with, save onely this oddes, that I said by the halter, and you say by the sword, what difference is there?

Iren.

There is surely great, when you shall understand it, for by the sword which I named, I did not meane the cutting off all that na∣tion with the sword, which farre bee it from mee, that I should ever thinke so desperately, or wish so uncharitably, but by the Sword I meane the royall power of the Prince, which ought to stretch it selfe forth in the chiefest strength to the redressing and cutting off those evills, which I before blamed, and not of the people which are evill. For evill people, by good ordinances and govern∣ment, may be made good; but the evill that is of it selfe evill, will never become good.

Eudox.

I pray you then declare your minde at large, how you would wish that sword which you meane to be used to the reforma∣tion of all those evills.

Iren.

The first thing must be to send over into that Realme, such a strong power of men, as should perforce bring in all that rebellious route and loose people, which either doe now stand out in open Armes, or in wandring companies doe keepe the woods, spoyling the good subjects.

Eudox.

You speake now Irenaeus of an infinite charge to her Ma∣jestie, to send over such an Army, as should tread downe all that stan∣deth before them on foot, and lay on the ground all the stiff-necked people of that land, for there is now but one Out-law of any great reckoning, to wit, the Earle of Tyrone abroad in armes, against whom you see what huge charges shee hath beene at this last yeare, in sen∣ding of men, providing of victualls, and making head against him, yet there is little or nothing at all done, but the Queenes treasure spent, her people wasted, the poore Countrey troubled, and the ene∣my neverthelesse brought into no more subjection then he was, or list outwardly to shew, which in effect is none, but rather a scorne of her power, and emboldening of a proud rebell, and an incou∣ragement to all like lewdlie disposed Traytors, that shall dare to

lift up their heele, against their soveraigne Lady: Therefore it were hard counsell to drawe such an exceeding great charge upon her, whose event should be so uncertaine.

Iren.

True indeede, if the event should bee uncertaine, but the certainty of the effect hereof shall be so infallible, as that no reason can gainesay it, neither shall the charge of all this Army (the which I demaund) be much greater, then so much as in these last two yeares warres, hath vainely beene expended. For I dare undertake, that it hath coste the Queene above 200000. pounds already, and for the present charge, that she is now at there, amounteth to very neere 12000. pounds a moneth, whereof cast you the accompt: yet nothing is done. The which summe had it beene imployed as it should bee, would have effected all this which now I goe about.

Eudox.

How meane you to have it imployed? but to bee spent in the pay of Souldiours, and provision of victualls.

Iren.

Right so, but it is now not disbursed at once, as it might be, but drawne out into a long length, by sending over now 20000 pounds, and next halfe yeare 10000. pounds, so as the Souldiour in the meane time for want of due provision of victuall, and good pay∣ment of his due, is starved and consumed, that of a 1000. which came over lusty able men, in halfe a yeare there are not left 500. And yet is the Queenes charge never a whit the lesse, but what is not payd in present money, is accounted in debt, which will not be long unpayd, for the Captaine, halfe of whose Souldiours are dead, and the other quarter never mustered, nor seene, comes shortly to demand payment of his whole accompt, where by good meanes of some great ones, and privy shareings with the Officers and servants of other some, hee receiveth his debt, much lesse perhaps then was due, yet much more indeede then he justly deserved.

Eudox.

I take this sure to be no good husbandry, for what must needes be spent, as good spend it at once, where is enough, as to have it drawne out into long delayes, seeing that thereby both the service is much hindred, and yet nothing saved but it may be Irenaeus that the Queenes treasure in so great occasions of disbursements (as it is well knowne she hath beene at lately,) is not alwayes so ready, nor so plentifull, as it can spare so great a summe together, but being payed as it is, now some, and then some, it is no great burthen unto her, nor any great impoverishment to her Coffers, seeing by such delay of time, it daylie commeth in, as fast as she parteth it out.

Iren.

It may be as you say, but for the going thorough of so ho∣norable a course (I doubt not) but if the Queenes Coffers be not so well stored (which we are not to looke into) but that the whole Realme which now as things are used, doe feele a continuall burthen of that wretched Realme, hanging upon their backes, would for a small riddance of all that trouble, be once troubled for all: and put to all their shoulders, and helping hands, and hearts also, to the de∣fraying of that charge, most gladfully and willingly, and surely the

charge in effect, is nothing to the infinite great good, which should come thereby, both to the Queene, and all this Realme generally, as when time serveth shall be shewed.

Eudox.

How many men would you require to the furnishing of this which yee take in hand? and how long space would you have them entertained?

Iren.

Verily not above 10000. footemen, and a 1000. horse, and all these not above the space of a yeare and a halfe, for I would still as the heate of the service abateth, abate the number in pay, and make other provision for them, as I will shew.

Eudox.

Surely it seemeth not much which you require, nor no long time, but how would you have them used? would you leade forth your Army against the Enemy, and seeke him where he is, to fight?

Iren.

No Eudoxus; That would not be, for it is well knowne that he is a flying enemie, hiding himselfe in woodes and bogges, from whence he will not drawe forth, but into some straight passage or pe∣rillous foord, where he knowes the Army must needes passe: There will he lye in waite, and if hee finde advantage fit, will dangerously hazard the troubled Souldiour. Therefore to seeke him out that still flitteth, and follow him that can hardly bee found, were vaine and bootelesse, but I would devide my men in garrison upon his Coun∣trey, in such places as I should thinke might most annoy him.

Eudox.

But how can that be Irenaeus with so few men? for the ene∣mie as you now see, is not all in one Country, but some in Vlster, some in Connaght, and others in Leinster. So as to plant strong garrisons in all those places should neede many more men then you speake of, or to plant all in one, and to leave the rest naked, should be but to leave them to the spoyle.

Iren.

I would wish the cheife power of the Army to be garrisond in one Countrey that is strongest, and the other upon the rest that is weakest▪ As for example, the Earle of Tyrone is now accompted the strongest, upon him would I lay 8000. men in garrison, 1000. upon Pheagh Mac Hugh and the Cavanaghes, and 1000. upon some parts of Connaght, to be at the direction of the Governour.

Eudox.

I see now all your men bestowed, but what places would you set their garrison that they might rise out most conveniently to service? and though perhaps I am ignorant of the places, yet I will take the Mappe of Ireland, and lay it before me, and make mine eyes (in the meane time) my Schoole-masters, to guide my understanding to judge of your plot.

Iren.

Those eight thousand in Vlster, I would devide likewise into foure parts, so as there should be 2000. Footemen in every garrison: The which I would thus place. Vpon the Blacke water, in some con∣venient place, as high upon the River as might be, I would lay one garrison. Another would I put at Castle-liffer, or there-abouts, so as they should have all the passages upon the River to Logh-foyle. The

third I would place about Fermanagh or Bundroise, so as they might lye betweene Connaght and Vlster, to serve upon both sides, as occasi∣on shall be offered, and this therefore would I have stronger then any of the rest, because it should be most inforced, and most imployed, and that they might put wardes at Balli-shanon, and Belick, and all those passages. The last would I set about Monoghan or Balturbut, so as it should fronte both upon the Enemie that way, and also keepe the Countyes of Cavan and Meath in awe, from passage of straglers from those parts, whence they use to come forth, and oftentimes use to worke much mischeife▪ And to every of these garrisons of 2000. Footemen, I would have 200. horsemen added, for the one without the other, can doe but little service. The 4. Garrisons thus being pla∣ced, I would have to bee victualled before hand for halfe a yeare, which you will say to be hard, considering the corruption and usuall waste of victualls. But why should not they be aswell victualled for so long time, as the ships are usually for a yeare, and sometimes two, seeing it is easier to keepe victuall on land then water. Their bread I would have in flower, so as it might be baked still to serve their ne∣cessary want. Their Beere there also brewed within them, from time to time, and their Beefe before hand barelled, the which may bee used, but as it is needed: For I make no doubt but fresh victualls, they will sometimes purvay for themselves, amongst their Enemies. Here∣unto likewise would I have them, have a store of hose and shooes, with such other necessaries as may be needefull for Souldiours, so as they should have no occasion to looke for releife from abroad, or oc∣casion of such trouble, for their continuall supply, as I see and have often proved in Ireland to bee more cumberous to the Deputy, and dangerous to them that releive them, then halfe the leading of an Army; for the Enemy knowing the ordinary wayes thorough the which their releife must be brought them, useth commonly to draw himselfe into the straight passages thither-ward, and oftentimes doth dangerously distresse them, besides the pay of such force as should be sent for their convoy, the charge of the carriages, the exactions of the Countrey shall be spared. But onely every halfe yeare the supply brought by the Deputy himselfe, and his power▪ who shall then vi∣site and overlooke all those Garrisons, to see what is needefull to change, what is expedient, and to direct what hee shall best advise. And those 4. Garrisons issuing forth, at such convenient times as they shall have intelligence or espiall upon the enemy, will so drive him from one side to another, and Tennis him amongst them, that he shall finde no where safe to keepe his Creete in, nor hide himselfe, but fly∣ing from the fire shall fall into the water, and out of one danger into another, that in short space his Creete, which is his cheife sustenance, shall be wasted with preying, or killed with driving, or starved for want of pasture in the woods, and he himselfe brought so lowe, that he shall have no heart nor ability, to indure his wretchednesse, the which will surely come to passe in very short time, for one Winter

well followed upon him will so plucke him on his knees, that he will never be able to stand up againe.

Eudox.

Doe you then thinke the Winter time fittest for the ser∣vices of Ireland, how falls it then that our most imployments bee in Summer, and the Armies then led commonly forth?

Iren.

It is surely misconceived, for it is not with Ireland as it is with other Countryes, where the warres flame most in Summer, and the Helmets glister brightest in the fairest Sunshine: But in Ireland, the Winter yeeldeth best services, for then the trees are bare and na∣ked, which use both to cloath and house the Kerne, the ground is cold and wet, which useth to be his bedding, the aire is sharpe and bitter, to blowe thorough his naked sides and legges, the kyne are barren and without milke, which useth to be his onely foode, neither if hee kill them, will they yeeld him flesh, nor if he keepe them, will they give him foode, besides being all with Calfe (for the most part) they will thorough much chasing and driving, cast all their Calves, and loose their milke, which should releive him the next Summer.

Eudox.

I doe well understand your reason, but by your leave, I have heard it otherwise said, of some that were Outlawes: That in Summer they kept themselves quiet, but in Winter they would play their parts, and when the nights were longest, then burne and spoyle most, so that they might safely returne before day.

Iren.

I have likewise heard, and also seene proofe thereof true: But that was of such Outlawes as were either abiding in well inhabi∣ted Countryes, as in Mounster, or bordering on the English pale, as Feagh Mac Hugh, the Cavanaghes, the Moores, the Dempsies, or such like: For, for them the winter indeede is the fittest time for spoyling and robbing, because the nights are then (as you said) longest and darkest, and also the Countryes round about are then most full of Corne, and good provision to be gotten every where by them, but it is farre otherwise with a strong peopled enemy, that possesse a whole coun∣trey, for the other being but a few, and indeede privily lodged, and kept in out villages, and corners nigh to the woodes and mountaines, by some of their privy friends, to whom they bring their spoyles and stealthes, and of whom they continually receive secret releife: But the open enemy having all his Countrey wasted, what by him∣selfe, and what by the Souldiours, findeth then succour in no place: Townes there are none, of which hee may get spoyle, they are all burnt: bread he hath none, he ploweth not in Summer: Flesh he hath, but if he kill it in Winter, he shall want milke in Summer, and shortly want life. Therefore if they bee well followed, but one Winter, you shall have little worke with them the next Summer.

Eudox.

I doe now well perceive the difference, and doe verily thinke that the Winter time is there fittest for service, withall I con∣ceive the manner of your handling of the service, by drawing sud∣daine draughts upon the Enemy, when he looketh not for you, and to watch advantages upon him, as hee doth upon you. By which

straight keeping of them in, and not suffering them at any time long to rest, I must needes thinke that they will soone bee brought lowe, and driven to great extreamities. All which when you have perfor∣med and brought them to the very last cast, suppose that they will offer, either to come to you and submit themselves, or that some of them will seeke to withdraw themselves, what is your advice to doe, will you have them received?

Iren.

No, but at the beginning of those warres, and when the Garrisons are well planted, and fortified, I would wish a Proclamati∣on were made generally, to come to their knowledge: That what persons soever, would within twenty dayes absolutely submit them∣selves, (excepting onely the very Principalls and Ring-leaders) should finde grace: I doubt not, but upon the settling of these Garri∣sons, such a terrour and neere consideration of their perillous state, would be strucken into most of them, that they will covet to drawe away from their Leaders. And againe I well know that the Rebells themselves (as I saw by proofe in Desmonds warres,) will turne away all their rascall people, whom they thinke unserviceable, as old men, women, children, and hyndes (which they call Churles,) which would onely waste their victualls, and yeeld them no ayde, but their Cattle they will surely keepe away: These therefore though policy would turne them backe againe, that they might the rather consume and afflict the other Rebells, yet in a pittyfull commiseration I would wish them to be received; The rather for that this sort of base people, doth not for the most part rebell of themselves, having no heart thereunto, but are by force drawne by the grand Rebells into their action, and carryed away with the violence of the streame, else they should be sure to loose all that they have, and perhaps their lives too: The which they now carry unto them, in hope to enjoy them there, but they are there by the strong Rebells themselves, soone turned out of all, so that the constrainte hereof, may in them deserve pardon. Likewise if any of their able men or Gentlemen shall then offer to come away, and to bring their Cattle with them, as some no doubt may steale them away privily, I wish them also to be received, for the disabling of the enemy, but withall, that good assurance may be taken for their true behaviour and absolute submission, and that then they be not suffered to remaine any longer in those parts, no nor about the Garrisons, but sent away into the inner parts of the Realme, and dispersed in such sort as they may not come together, nor easily returne if they would: For if they might bee suffered to re∣maine about the Garrisons, and there inhabite, as they will offer to tille the ground, and yeeld a great part of the profit thereof, and of their Cattle, to the Coronell, wherewith they have heretofore tempted many, they would (as I have by experience knowne) bee ever after such a gaule, and inconvenience to them, as that their profit shall not recompence their hurt, for they will privily releive their friends that are forth, they will send the Enemy secret advertizements of all their

purposes and journeyes, which they meane to make upon them, they will not also sticke to drawe the enemy privily upon them, yea and to betray the fort it selfe, by discovery of all her defects and disad∣vantages (if any be) to the cutting of all their throates. For avoiding whereof and many other inconveniences, I wish that they should be carried farre from thence into some other parts, so that (as I say) they come in and submit themselves, upon the first summons: But after∣wards I would have none received but left to their fortune and mise∣rable end: my reason is, for that those which will afterwards remaine without, are stout and obstinate Rebells, such as will never be made dutifull and obedient, nor brought to labour or civill conversation, having once tasted that licentious life, and being acquainted with spoyle and out-rages, will ever after be ready for the like occasions, so as there is no hope of their amendment or recovery, and therefore needefull to be cut off.

Eudox.

Surely of such desperate persons, as will follow the course of their owne folly, there is no compassion to bee had, and for others you have proposed a mercifull meanes, much more then they have deserved, but what then shall be the conclusion of this warre; For you have prefixed a short time of its continuance?

Iren.

The end will (I assure me) bee very short and much sooner then can be in so great a trouble, as it seemeth hoped for, although there should none of them fall by the sword, nor bee slaine by the Souldiour, yet thus being kept from manurance, and their Cattle from running abroad, by this hard restraint they would quickly con∣sume themselves, and devoure one another. The proofe whereof, I saw sufficiently exampled in these late warres of Mounster, for not∣withstanding that the same was a most rich and plentifull countrey, full of corne and cattle, that you would have thought they should have beene able to stand long, yet ere one yeare and a halfe they were brought to such wretchednesse, as that any stony heart would have rued the same. Out of every corner of the woods and glynnes they came creeping forth upon their hands, for their legges could not beare them, they looked like anatomies of death, they spake like Ghosts crying out of their graves, they did eate the dead Carrions, happy were they could finde them, yea, and one another soone after, insomuch as the very carcasses they spared not to scrape out of their graves, and if they found a plot of water-cresses or Shamrocks; there they flocked as to a feast for the time, yet not able long to continue therewithall, that in short space there were none almost left, and a most populous and plentifull countrey suddainely left voyde of man and beast, yet sure in all that warre, there perished not many by the Sword, but all by the extremitie of famine, which they themselves had wrought.

Eudox.

It is a wonder that you tell, and more to bee wondred how it should so shortly come to passe.

Iren.

It is most true, and the reason also very ready, for you must

conceive that the strength of all that Nation, is the Kerne, Galloglasse, Stocah, Horseman and Horseboy, the which having beene never used to have any thing of their owne, and now being upon spoyle of o∣thers, make no spare of any thing, but havocke and confusion of all they meet with, whether it bee their owne Friends goods, or their Foes. And if they happen to get never so great spoyle at any time, the same they waste and consume in a tryce, as naturally deligh∣ting in spoyle, though it doe themselves no good. On the o∣ther side, whatsoever they leave unspent, the Souldier when hee commeth there, spoyleth and havocketh likewise, so that betweene both, nothing is very shortly left. And yet this is ve∣ry necessary to bee done for the soone finishing of the warre, and not onely this in this wise, but also those subiects▪ which doe border upon those parts, are either to bee removed and drawne away, or likewise to bee spoyled, that the Enemy may find no suc∣cour thereby. For what the Souldier spares, the Rebell will sure∣ly spoyle.

Eudox.

I doe now well understand you. But now when all things are brought to this passe, and all filled with these ruefull spe∣ctacles of so many wretched Carcases starving, goodly Countreyes wasted, so huge desolation and confusion, that even I that doe but heare it from you, and doe picture it in my minde, doe greatly pit∣tie and commiserate it. If it shall happen that the state of this mi∣serie and lamentable image of things shall bee tolde, and fee∣lingly presented to her sacred Maiestie, being by nature full of mercy and clemency, who is most inclinable to such pittifull complaints, and will not endure to heare such Tragedies made of her poore people and subiects, as some about her may insinuate. Then shee perhappes for very compassion of such calamities, will not onely stoppe the streame of such violence, and returne to her wonted mildenesse, but also conne them little thankes which have beene the authours and Councellours of such bloodie plat∣formes▪ So I remember that in the late government of that good Lord Grey, when after long travell, and many perillous assayes, he had brought things almost to this passe, that you speake of, that it was even made ready for reformation, and might have beene brought to what her Maiestie would, like complaint was made against him, that he was a bloodie man, and regarded not the life of her subiects no more then dogges, but had wasted and consumed all, so as now she had nothing almost left, but to raigne in their Ashes, eare was soon lent therunto, & all suddenly turned topside-turvy the Noble Lord eft-soones was blamed, the wretched people pittied & new counsells plotted, in which it was concluded that a generall par∣don should be sent over to all that would accept of it, upon which all former purposes were blancked, the Governour at a bay, and not only all that great and long charge which shee had before beene at quite lost and cancelled, but also all that hope of good which was

even at the doore put back, and cleane frustrated. All which, whether it be true or no, your selfe can well tell.

Iren.

Too true Eudoxus, the more the pitty, for I may not for∣get so memorable a thing: Neither can I bee ignorant of that peril∣lous device, and of the whole meanes by which it was compassed, & very cunningly contrived by sowing first dissention betweene him, & an other noble personage; where in they both at length found how notably they had beene abused, and how thereby under hand, this universall alteration of things was brought about, but then too late to stay the same, for in the meane time all that was formerly done with long labor, & great toyle, was (as you say) in a moment undone, and that good Lord blotted with the name of a bloody man, whom, who that well knew, knew to be most gentle, affable, loving and tem∣perate. But that the necessitie of that present state of things, inforced him to that violence, and almost changed his naturall disposition. But otherwise he was so farre from delighting in blood, that often∣times he suffered not just vengeance to fall where it was deserved: and even some of them which were afterwardes his accusers, had tasted too much of his mercy, and were from the gallowes brought to bee his accusers. But his course indeede was this, ••hat hee spared not the heades and principalls of any mischievous practi∣ses or rebellion, but shewed sharpe iudgement on them, chiefly for ensamples sake, that all the meaner sort, which also were generally then infected with that evill, might by terrour thereof bee reclay∣med, and saved, if it were possible. For in the last conspiracy of * 1.8 some of the English Pale, thinke you not that there were ma∣ny more guiltie then they that felt the punishment? yet hee tou∣ched onely a few of speciall note, and in the tryall of them also e∣ven to prevent the blame of cruelty and partiall proceeding, and seeking their Blood, which he, as in his great wisedome (as it seem∣eth) did fore-see would bee objected against him; hee for avoyding thereof, did use a singular discretion and regard. For the Iury that went upon their tryall, hee made to bee chosen out of their nearest kinsmen, and their Iudges he made of some of their owne Fathers, of othets their Vncles and dearest friends, who when they could not but justly condemne them, yet he uttered their judgment in aboun∣dance of teares, and yet hee even heerein was called bloody and cruell.

Eudox.

Indeed so have I heard it heere often spoken, but I perceive (as I alwayes verily thought) that it was most unjustly, for hee was alwayes knowne to bee a most iust, sincere, godly, and right noble man, farre from such sternenesse, farre from such unrighteousnesse. But in that sharpe execution of the Spa∣niards, at the fort of Sinerwick, I heard it specially noted, and if it were true as some reported, surely it was a great touch to him in ho∣nour, for some say that he promised them life: others at least hee did put them in hope thereof.

Iren.

Both the one and the other is most untrue; for this I can assure you, my selfe being as neare them as any, that hee was so farre either from promising, or putting them in hope, that when first their Secretarie (called as I remember) Signior Ieffrey an Ita∣lian, being sent to treate with the Lord Deputie for grace, was flatly refused: And afterwards their Coronell named Don Seba∣stian, came forth to intreate that they might part with their Armes like Souldiers, at the least with their lives according to the custome of Warre, and Law of Nations, it was strongly denyed him, and tolde him by the Lord Deputie himselfe, that they could not iustly pleade either custome of Warre, or Law of Nations, for that they were not any lawfull Enemies, and if they were, hee willed them to shew by what commission they came thither in∣to another Princes Dominions to warre, whether from the Pope or the King of Spaine, or any other, the which when they said they had not, but were onely adventurers that came to seeke fortune a∣broad, and to serve in warres amongst the Irish, who desired to en∣tertaine them. It was then tolde them, that the Irish themselves, as the Earle and Iohn of Desmond, with the rest, were no lawfull Enemies; but Rebells and Traytours, and therefore they that came to succour them, no better then Rogues and Runnagates, specially comming with no licence, nor commission from their owne King. So as it should bee dishonourable for him in the name of his Queene, to condition or make any tearmes with such Rascalls, but left them to their choyce, to yeeld and submit themselves, or no: whereupon the said Coronell did absolutely yeeld himselfe and the Fort, with all therein, and craved onely mercy, which it being not thought good to shew them, for daunger of them, if being saved, they should afterwardes ioyne with the Irish, and also for terrour to the Irish, who are much imboldened by those forraigne succours, and also put in hope of more ere long, there was no o∣ther way but to make that short end of them as was made. There∣fore most untruely and maliciously doe these evill tongues back∣bite and slander the sacred ashes of that most iust and honourable personage, whose least virtue of many most excellent that aboun∣ded in his Heroicke spirit, they were never able to aspire unto.

Eudox.

Truely Irenaeus, I am right glad to be thus satisfied by you, in that I have often heard questioned, and yet was never able till now, to choake the mouth of such detractours, with the cer∣taine knowledge of their slanderous untruthes, neither is the know∣ledge hereof impertinent to that which wee formerly had in hand, I meane for the thorough prosecuting of that sharpe course which you have set downe for the bringing under of those Rebells of Vlster and Connaght, and preparing a way for their perpetuall refor∣mation, least happily by any such sinister suggestions of cru∣eltie and too much blood-shed, all the plot might be over-throwne,

and all the coste and labour therein imployed, bee utterly lost and cast away.

Iren.

You say most true, for after that Lords calling away from thence, the two Lords Iustices continued but a while: of which the one was of minde (as it seemed) to have continued in the footing of his predecessors, but that he was curbed and restrayned. But the o∣ther was more mildly disposed, as was meete for his profession, and willing to have all the wounds of that Common-wealth healed and recured, but not with that heede as they should bee. After when Sir Iohn Perrot succeeding (as it were) into another mans harvest, found an open way to what course hee list, the which hee bent not to that point which the former Governours intended, but rather quite contrary, as it were in scorne of the former, and in vaine vaunt of his owne Councells, with the which hee was too willfully carryed; for hee did treade downe and disgrace all the English, and set up and countenance the Irish all that hee could, whether thinking thereby to make them more tractable and buxome to his government, (wherein hee thought much a∣misse) or privily plotting some other purposes of his owne, as it partly afterwards appeared, but surely his manner of governe∣ment, could not be sound nor wholesome for that Realme, it being so contrary to the former. For it was even as two Physicians should take one sicke body in hand, at two sundry times: Of which the former would minister all things meete to purge and keepe under the Bodie: the other to pamper and strengthen it suddenly againe, whereof what is to bee looked for, but a most daungerous re∣lapse? That which wee now see thorough his rule, and the next after him, happened thereunto, being now more daunge∣rously sicke then ever before. Therefore by all meanes it must bee fore-seene and assured, that after once entering into this course of reformation, there bee afterwardes no remorse nor drawing backe for the sight of any such ruefull objects, as must thereupon followe, nor for compassion of their cala∣mities, seeing that by no other meanes it is possible to cure them, and that these are not of will, but of very urgent neces∣sitie.

Eudox.

Thus farre then you have now proceeded to plant your garrisons, and to direct their services, of the which ne∣verthelesse I must needes conceive that there cannot be any certaine direction set downe, so that they must follow the occasions which shall bee daylie offered, and diligently awayted. But by your leave (Irenaeus) notwithstanding all this your carefull fore-sight and provision (mee thinkes) I see an evill lurke unespyed, and that may chance to hazard all the hope of this great service, if it bee not very well looked into, and that is, the corruption of their Captaines; for though they be placed never so carefully, and their Companies filled never so sufficiently, yet may they, if

they list, discarde whom they please, and send away such as will perhappes willingly bee ridde of that dangerous and hard service, the which (well I wote) is their common custome to doe, when they are layde in garrison, for then they may better hide their de∣faults, then when they are in Campe, where they are continually eyed and noted of all men. Besides, when their pay commeth, they will (as they say) detaine the greatest portions thereof at their plea∣sure, by a hundred shifts that need not here be named, through which they oftentimes deceive the Souldier, and abuse the Queene, and greatly hinder the service. So that let the Queene pay never so fully, let the Muster-Master view then never so diligently, let the Deputy or Generall looke to them never so exactly, yet they can cozen them all. Therefore me thinkes it were good, if it be possible, to make pro∣vision for this inconvenience.

Iren.

It will surely be very hard; but the chiefest helpe for pre∣vention hereof must be the care of the Coronell that hath the govern∣ment of all his garrison, to have an eye to their alterations, to know the numbers and names of the sick Souldiers, and the slaine, to marke and observe their rankes in their daylie rising forth to service, by which he cannot easily bee abused, so that hee himselfe bee a man of speciall assurance and integritie. And therefore great regard is to bee had in the choosing and appointing of them. Besides, I would not by any meanes, that the Captaines should have the paying of their Souldiers, but that there should bee a Pay-master appointed, of speciall trust, which should pay every man according to his Captaines Ticket, and the accompt of the Clerke of his Band, for by this meanes the Captaine will never seeke to falsifie his alterations, nor to diminish his Company, nor to deceive his Souldiers, when nothing thereof shalbe sure to come unto himselfe, but what is his owne bare pay. And this is the manner of the Spaniards Captaine, who never hath to meddle with his Souldiers pay, and indeed scor∣neth the name as base to be counted his Souldiers Pagadore, whereas the contrary amongst us hath brought things to so bad a passe, that there is no Captaine but thinkes his Band very sufficient, if hee can muster 60: and stickes not to say openly, that he is unworthy to have a Captainship, that cannot make it worth 500^l. by the yeare, the which they right well verifie by the proofe.

Eudox.

Truely I thinke this a very good meanes to avoid that in∣convenience of Captaines abuses. But what say you to the Coronell? what authority thinke you meete to be given him? whether will you allow him to protect or safe conduct, and to have martiall lawes as they are accustomed?

Iren.

Yea verily, but all these to bee limited with very straite in∣structions. As first for protections, that hee shall have authority af∣ter the first Proclamation, for the space of twentie dayes, to pro∣tect all that shall come in, and them to send to the Lord De∣putie, with their safe conduct or passe, to bee at his disposition,

but so as none of them returne backe againe, being once come in, but be presently sent away out of the Countrey, to the next She∣riffe, and so conveyed in safetie. And likewise for martiall Lawe, that to the Souldier it bee not extended, but by tryall formerly of his cryme, by a Iury of his fellow Souldiers as it ought to bee, and not rashly at the will or displeasure of the Coronell, as I have sometimes seene too lightly. And as for o∣ther of the Rebells that shall light into their handes, that they bee well aware of what condition they bee, and what holding they have. For in the last generall warres there, I knew ma∣ny good Free-holders executed by martiall law, whose landes were thereby saved to their Heires, which should have other∣wise escheated to her Majestie. In all which the great discretion and uprigntnesse of the Coronell himselfe is to bee the chiefest stay both for all those doubts, and for many other difficulties that may in the service happen.

Eudox.

Your caution is very good; but now touching the Arch-Rebell himselfe, I meane the Earle of Tyrone, if he in all the time of these warres, should offer to come in and submit himselfe to her Ma∣jestie, would you not have him received, giving good hostages, and sufficient assurance of himselfe?

Iren.

No marrie, for there is no doubt, but hee will offer to come in, as hee hath done diverse times already, but it is without any intent of true submission, as the effect hath well shewed, nei∣ther indeed can hee now if hee would, come in at all, nor give that assurance of himselfe that should bee meete: for being as hee is ve∣ry subtle headed, seeing himselfe now so farre ingaged in this bad action, can you thinke that by his submission, hee can purchase to himselfe any safetie, but that heereafter, when things shall bee quieted, these his villanies will be ever remem∣bred, and whensoever hee shall treade awry (as needes the most righteous must sometimes) advantage will bee taken thereof, as a breach of his pardon, and hee brought to a reckoning for all for∣mer matters; besides, how hard it is now for him to frame him∣selfe to subjection, that having once set before his Eyes the hope of a Kingdome, hath therunto not onely found incouragement from the greatest King in Christendome, but also found great faintnes in her Maiesties withstanding him, wherby he is animated to think that his power is able to defend him, & offend further then he hath done, whensoever he please, let every reasonable man iudge. But if hee himselfe should come and leave all other, his accomplices without, as O Donel, Mac Mahone, Maguire, & the rest, he must needs thinke that then even they, will ere long cut his throate, which having drawne them all into this occasion, now in the midst of their trouble giveth them the slip, whereby hee must needes perceive how impossible it is for him to submit himselfe. But yet if hee would so doe, can he give any good assurance of his obedience? For how weake

hould is there by hostages, hath too often beene proved, and that which is spoken of taking Shane O-Neales sonnes from him, and set∣ting them up against him is a very perillous counsaile, and not by any meanes to be put in proofe, for were they let forth and could over∣throwe him, who should afterwards overthrow them, or what assu∣rance can be had of them? It will be like the tale in Aesop, of the wild horse, who having enmity with the Stagg, came to a man to desire his ayde against his foe, who yeelding therevnto mounted upon his backe, and so following the stagge, ere long slew him, but then when the horse would have him alight he refused, but ever after kept him in his subjection and service. Such I doubt would bee the proofe of Shane O-Neales sonnes. Therefore it is most dangerous to attempt any such plot, for even that very manner of plot, was the meanes by which this trayterous Earle is now made great: For when the last O-Neale, called Terlagh Leinagh, began to stand upon some tickle termes, this fellow then, called Baron of Dunganon, was set up as it were to beard him, and countenanced and strengthened by the Queene so far, as that he is now able to keepe her selfe play: much like unto a Game∣ster that having lost all, borroweth of his next fellow-Gamester somewhat to maintaine play, which he setting unto him againe, short∣ly thereby winneth all from the winner.

Eudox.

Was this Rebell then set up at first by the Queene (as you say) and now become so undutifull?

Iren.

He was (I assure you) the most outcast of all the O-Neales then, and lifted up by her Majesty out of the dust, to that he hath now wrought himselfe unto, and now hee playeth like the frozen snake, who being for compassion releived by the husbandman, soone after he was warme began to hisse, and threaten danger even to him and his.

Eudox.

He surely then deserveth the punishment of that snake, & should worthily be hewed to peeces. But if you like not the letting forth of Shane O-Neales sonnes against him, what say you then of that advice which (I heard) was given by some, to draw in Scotts to serve against him? how like you that advice?

Iren.

Much worse then the former, for who that is experienced in those parts knoweth not that the O-Neales are neerely allyed unto the Mac-Neiles of Scotland, and to the Earle of Argyle, from whence they use to have all their succours of those Scottes and Redshanckes: Besides all these Scottes are through long continuance intermingled and allyed to all the inhabitants of the north:* 1.9 So as there is no hope that they will ever be wrought to serve faithfully against their old friends and kinsmen: And though they would, how when they have overthrowne him, and the warres are finished, shall they themselves be put out? doe we not all know, that the Scottes were the first inhabi∣tants of all the north, and that those which now are called the north Irish, are indeed very * 1.10 Scottes, which challenge the ancient inheritance and dominion of that Countrey, to be their owne aunciently: This

then were but to leap out of the pan into the fire: For the cheifest caveat and provision in reformation of the north, must be to keep out those Scottes.

Eudox.

Indeede I remember, that in your discourse of the first peopling of Ireland, you shewed that the Scythians or Scottes were the first that sate downe in the north whereby it seemes that they may challenge some right therein. How comes it then that O-Neales claimes the dominion thereof, and this Earle of Tyrone saith that the right is in him? I pray you resolve me herein? for it is very needefull to be knowne, and maketh unto the right of the warre against him, whose successe useth commonly to be according to the justnes of the cause, for which it is made: For if Tyrone have any right in that Seig∣niory (me thinkes) it should be wrong to thrust him out: Or if (as I remember) you said in the beginning that O-Neale when he acknow∣ledged the King of England for his Leige Lord and Soveraigne, did (as he alleadgeth) reserve in the same submission, his Seigniories and rights unto himselfe, what should it be accounted to thrust him out of the same?

Iren.

For the right of O-Neale in the seigniory of the north, it is surely none at all: For besides that the Kings of England conquered all the Realme, and thereby assumed and invested all the right of that land to themselves and their heires and successours for ever: So as nothing was left in O-Neale but what he received backe from them, O-Neale himselfe never had any ancient Seigniory over that country, but what by usurpation and incroachment after the death of the Duke of Clarence, he got upon the English, whose lands and possessions being formerly wasted by the Scottes, under the leading of Edward le Bruce, (as I formerly declared unto you) he eft-soones entred into, and sithence hath wrongfully detained, through the other occupations and great affaires which the Kings of England (soone after) fell into here at home, so as they could not intend to the recovery of that Countrey of the north, nor restraine the insolency of O-Neale, who finding none now to withstand him, raigned in that desolation, and made himselfe Lord of those few people that remained there, upon whom ever sithence he hath continued his first usurped power, and now exacteth and extorteth upon all men what he list; So that now to subdue or expell an usurper, should bee no unjust enterprise or wrongfull warre, but a restitution of auncient right unto the Crowne of England, from whence they were most unjustly expelled and long kept out.

Eudox.

I am very glad herein to be thus satisfied by you, that I may the better satisfie them, whom I have often heard to object these doubts, and slaunderously to barke at the courses which are held a∣gainst that trayterous Earle and his adherents. But now that you have thus settled your service for Vlster and Connaght: I would bee glad to heare your opinion for the prosecuting of Feagh Mac Hugh, who being but a base villaine, and of himselfe of no power, yet so

continually troubleth the State, notwithstanding that he lyeth under their nose, that I disdaine his bold arrogancy, and thinke it to be the greatest indignity to the Queene that may be, to suffer such a caytiffe to play such Rex, and by his ensample not onely to give heart and in∣couragement to all such bad Rebells, but also to yeeld them succour and refuge against her Majesty, whensoever they fly unto his Come∣ricke, whereof I would first wish before you enter into your plot of service against him, that you should lay open by what meanes, he be∣ing so base, first lifted himselfe up to this dangerous greatnes, and how he maintaineth his part against the Queene and her power, not∣withstanding all that hath beene done and attempted against him. And whether also hee have any pretence of right in the lands which he houldeth, or in the warres that he maketh for the same?

Iren.

I will so, at your pleasure, and will further declare, not on∣ly the first beginning of his private house▪ but also the originall of the sept of the Birnes and Tooles, so farre as I have learned the same from some of themselves, and gathered the rest by reading: The people of the Birnes and Tooles (as before I shewed unto you my conje∣cture) descended from the auncient Brittaines, which first inhabited all those easterne parts of Ireland, as their names doe betoken, for * 1.11 Brin in the Brittish language signifieth wooddy, and Toole hilly, which names it seemeth they tooke of the Countryes which they inhabited, which is all very mountainous and woody. In the which it seemeth that ever since the comming in of the English with * 1.12 Dermot ni-Gall, they have continued: Whether that their coun∣trey being so rude and mountainous was of them despi∣sed, and thought unworthy the inhabiting, or that, that they were received to grace by them, and suffered to enjoy their lands, as unfit for any other, yet it seemeth that in some places of the same they have put foote, and fortified with sundry Castles, of which the ruines onely doe there now remaine, since which time they are growne to that strength, that they are able to lift up hand against all that state; and now lately through the boldnes and late good successe of of this Feagh Mac Hugh, they are so farre im∣boldened, that they threaten perill even to Dublin, over whose necke they continually hang. But touching your demand of this Feaghes right unto that Countrey which he claimes, or the seigniory therein, it is most vaine and arrogant. For this you cannot be ignorant, that it was part of that which was given in inheritance by Dermot Mac Morrough King of Leinster, unto Strongbowe with his daughter, and which Strongbowe gave over unto the King and his heires, so as the right is absolutely now in her Majesty, and if it were not, yet could it not be in this Feagh, but in * 1.13 O Brin, which is the ancient Lord of all that Countrey, for he and his auncestours were but followers unto O-Brin, and his grandfather Shane Mac Terlagh, was a man of mea∣nest

regard amongst them neither having wealth nor power. But his Sonne Hugh Mac Shane, the father of this Feagh, first began to lift up his head, and through the strength and great fastnes of Glan-Malor, which adjoyneth unto his house of Ballinecor, drew unto him many theeves and out-lawes, which fled unto the succour of that glynne, as to a sanctuary and brought unto him part of the spoyle of all the Countrey, through which he grew strong, and in short space got unto himselfe a great name thereby amongst the Irish, in whose footing this his sonne continuing, hath through many unhappy occasions, in∣creased his said name, and the opinion of his greatnes, insomuch that now he is become a dangerous Enemy to deale withall.

Eudox.

Surely I can commend him, that being of himselfe of so meane condition, hath through his owne hardinesse lifted himselfe up to the height, that he dare now front Princes, and make tearmes with great potentates; the which as it is to him honourable, so it is to them most disgracefull, to be bearded of such a base varlet, that be∣ing but of late growne out of the dunghill, beginneth now to over∣crow so high mountaines, and make himselfe great protectour of all Outlawes and Rebells that will repaire unto him. But doe you thinke he is now so dangerous an enemy as he is counted, or that it is so hard to take him downe as some suppose?

Iren.

No verily, there is no great reckoning to bee made of him, for had he ever beene taken in hand, when the rest of the Realme (or at least the parts adjoyning) had been quiet, as the honourable Gent. that now governeth there, (I meane Sir William Russell) gave a no∣table * 1.14 attempt thereunto, and had worthily performed it, if his course had not beene crossed unhappily, he could not have stood 3. moneths, nor ever have looked up against a very meane power: but now all the parts about him being up in a madding moode, as the Moores in Leix, the Cavenaghes in the county of Wexford, and some of the Butlers in the county of Kilkenny, they all flocke unto him, and drawe into his country, as to a strong hould where they thinke to be safe, from all that prosecute them: And from thence they doe at their pleasures breake out into all the borders adjoyning, which are well peopled countryes, as the counties of Dublin, of Kildare, of Catherlagh, of Kilkenny, of Wexford, with the spoiles whereof they victuall and strengthen themselves, which otherwise should in short time be star∣ved, and sore pyned, so that what he is of himselfe, you may hereby perceive.

Eudox.

Then by so much as I gather out of your speech, the next way to end the warres with him, and to roote him out quite, should be to keepe him from invading of those countryes adjoyning, which (as I suppose) is to be done, either by drawing all the inhabitants of those next borders away, and leaving them utterly waste, or by plan∣ting garrisons upon all those frontiers about him, that when he shall breake forth, may set upon him and shorten his returne.

Iren.

You conceive very rightly Eudoxus, but for that the dis∣peopling

and driving away all the inhabitants from the countrey a∣bout him, which you speake of should bee a great confusion and trouble, aswell for the unwillingnesse of them, to leave their possessi∣ons, as also for placing and providing for them in other Countryes, (me thinkes) the better course should be by planting of Garrisons a∣bout him, which whensoever he shall looke forth, or be drawne out with the desire of the spoyle of those borders, or for necessity of vi∣ctuall, shall be alwayes ready to intercept his going or comming.

Eudox.

Where then doe you wish those Garrisons to be planted that they may serve best against him, and how many in every Gar∣rison?

Iren.

I my selfe by reason that (as I told you) I am no martiall man, will not take upon me to direct so dangerous affaires, but onely as I understood by the purposes and plots, which the Lord Gray who was well experienced in that service, against him did lay downe: To the performance whereof he onely required 1000. men to be laid in 6. garrisons, that is, at Ballinecor 200. footemen and 50. horsemen, which should shut him out of his great glynne, whereto he so much trusteth; at Knockelough 200. footemen and 50. horsemen, to answere the coun∣ty of Catherlagh; at Arclo or Wicklow 200. footemen and 50. horse∣men to defend all that side towards the Sea. In Shillelagh 100. foote∣men which should cut him from the Cavanaghes, and the county of Wexford; and about the three Castles 50. horsemen, which should de∣fend all the county of Dublin; and 100. footemen at Talbots towne, which should keepe him from breaking out into the County of Kil∣dare, and be alwayes on his necke on that side: The which Garrisons so laide, will so busie him, that he shall never rest at home, nor stirre forth abroad but he shall be had; as for his Creete they cannot be a∣bove ground, but they must needes fall into their hands or starve, for he hath no fastnes nor refuge for them. And as for his partakers of the Moores, Butlers, and Cavanaghes, they will soone leave him, when they see his fastnes and strong places thus taken from him.

Eudox.

Surely this seemeth a plot of great reason, and small diffi∣culty, which promiseth hope of a short end. But what speciall dire∣ctions will you set downe for the services and risings out of these Garrisons.

Iren.

None other then the present occasions shall minister unto them, and as by good espialls, whereof there they cannot want store, they shall be drawne continually upon him, so as one of them shall be still upon him, and sometimes all at one instant, bayting him. And this (I assure my selfe) will demaund no long time, but will be all fi∣nished in the space of one yeare, which how small a thing it is, unto the eternall quietnesse which shall thereby be purchased to that Re∣alme, and the great good which should growe to her Majesty, should (me thinkes) readily drawe on her Highnesse to the undertaking of the enterprise.

Eudox.

You have very well (me thinkes) Irenaeus plotted a course

for the atcheiving of those warres now in Ireland, which seemes to aske no long time, nor great charge, so as the effecting thereof bee committed to men of sure trust, and sound experience, aswell in that Country, as in the manner of those services, for if it bee left in the hands of such rawe Captaines, as are usually sent out of England, be∣ing thereunto onely preferred by friendship, and not chosen by suffi∣ciency, it will soone fall to the ground.

Iren.

Therefore it were meete (me thinkes) that such Captaines onely were thereunto employed, as have formerly served in that Country, and been at least Leivtenants unto other Captaines there. For otherwise being brought and transferred from other services a∣broad, as in France, in Spaine, and in the Low-Countryes, though they be of good experience in those, and have never so well deserved, yet in these they will be new to seeke, and before they have gathered expe∣rience, they shall buy it with great losse to her Majesty, either by ha∣zarding of their companies, through ignorance of the places, and manner of the Irish services, or by loosing a great part of the time which is required hereunto, being but short, in which it might be fi∣nished, almost before they have taken out a new lesson, or can tell what is to be done.

Eudox.

You are no good friend to new Captaines; It seemes Iren. that you barre them from the credit of this service: but (to say truth) me thinkes it were meete, that any one before he came to bee a Cap∣taine, should have beene a Souldiour, for parere qui nescit, nescit impe∣rare. And besides there is great wrong done to the old Souldiour, from whom all meanes of advancement which is due unto him, is cut off by shuffling in these new cutting Captaines, into the place for which he hath long served, and perhaps better deserved. But now that you have thus (as I suppose) finished all the warre, and brought all things to that lowe ebbe which you speake of, what course will you take for the bringing in of that reformation which you intend, and recovering all things from this desolate estate? in which (mee thinkes) I behold them now left, unto that perfect establishment and new common-wealth which you have conceived of, by which so great good may redound unto her Majesty, and an assured peace bee confirmed, for that is it whereunto wee are now to looke, and doe greatly long for, being long sithence made weary with the huge charge which you have laide upon us, and with the strong indurance of so many complaints, so many delayes, so many doubts and dan∣gers, as will hereof (I know well) arise, unto the which before wee come, it were meete (me thinkes) that you should take some order for the Souldiour, which is now first to bee discharged and disposed of, some way: the which if you doe not well fore-see, may growe to as great inconvenience as all this that I suppose you have quit us from, by the loose leaving of so many thousand Souldiours, which from thence forth will be unfit for any labour or other trade, but must ei∣ther seeke service and imployment abroad, which may be dangerous,

or else perhaps imploy themselves heere at home, as may bee discommodious.

Iren.

You say very true, and it is a thing much mislyked in this our Common-wealth, that no better course is taken for such as have beene imployed in service, but that returning whether maymed and so unable to labour, or otherwise whole and sound, yet after∣wards unwilling to worke, or rather willing to set the hang-man on worke. But that needeth another consideration; but to this which wee have now in hand, it is farre from my meaning to leave the Soul∣dier so at randome, or to leave that waste Realme so weake and desti∣tute of strength, which may both defend it against others that might seeke then to set upon it, and also to keepe it from that relapse which I before did fore-cast. For it is one speciall good of this plot, which I would devise, that 6000. Souldiers of these whom I have now imployed in this service, and made thoroughly acquainted both with the state of the Countrey, and manners of the people, should henceforth bee still continued, and for ever maintayned of the Countrey, without any charge to her Majestie, and the rest that ei∣ther are olde, and unable to serve any longer, or willing to fall to thrift, as I have seene many Souldiers after the service, to prove very good husbands, should bee placed in part of the landes by them wonne, at such rate, or rather better then others, to whom the same shall be set out.

Eudox.

Is it possible Irenaeus? can there be any such meanes de∣vised, that so many men should be kept still in her Majesties service, without any charge to her at all. Surely this were an exceeding great good both to her Highnes to have so many olde Souldiers al∣wayes ready at call, to what purpose soever she list to imploy them, and also to have that land thereby so strengthened, that it shall nei∣ther feare any forraine Invasion, nor practise, which the Irish shall e∣ver attempt, but shall keepe them under in continuall awe and firme obedience.

Iren.

It is so indeed. And yet this truely I doe not take to be any matter of great difficultie, as I thinke it will also soone appeare unto you. And first we will speake of the North part, for that the same is of more weight and importance. So soone as it shall appeare that the Enemy is brought downe, and the stout Rebell either cut off, or driven to that wretchednesse, that hee is no longer able to holde up his head, but will come in to any conditions, which I assure my selfe will bee before the end of the second Winter, I wish that there bee a generall Proclamation made, that whatsoever Out-lawes will freely come in, and submit themselves to her Maje∣sties mercy, shall have liberty so to doe, where they shall either finde that grace they desire, or have leave to returne againe in safety, upon which it is likely that so many as survive, will come in to sue for grace, of which, who so are thought meet for subjection, and fit to be brought to good, may be received, or else all of them;

(for I thinke that all wilbe but a very few) upon condition and as∣surance that they will submit themselves absolutely to her Maie∣sties ordinance for them, by which they shall be assured of life and libertie, and be onely tyed to such conditions as shall bee thought by her meet for containing them ever after in due obedience. To the which conditions I nothing doubt, but that they will all most readi∣ly, and upon their knees submit themselves, by the proofe of that which I have seene in Mounster. For upon the like Proclamation there, they all came in both tagg and ragg, and when as afterwardes many of them were denyed to be received, they bade them doe with them what they would, for they would not by any meanes returne againe, nor goe forth. For in that case who will not accept almost of any conditions, rather then dye of hunger and miserie.

Eudox.

It is very likely so. But what then is the Ordinance, and what bee the conditions which you will propose unto them, which shall reserve unto them an assurance of life and li∣berty.

Iren.

So soone then as they have given the best assurance of themselves which may be required, which must be (I suppose) some of their principall men to remaine in hostage one for another, and some other for the rest, for other surety I reckon of none that may binde them, neither of wife, nor of children, since then perhappes they would gladly be ridde of both from the famine, I would have them first unarmed utterly, and stripped quite of all their warre∣like weapons, & then these conditions set downe, & made knowne unto them, that they shall bee placed in Leinster, and have land given them to occupy and to live upon, in such sort as shall be∣come good subjects, to labour thenceforth for their living, and to apply themselves to honest trades of civility, as they shall every one be found meete and able for.

Eudox.

Where then a gods name will you place them in Leinster? or will you finde out any new land there for them that is yet un∣knowne?

Iren.

No, I will place them all in the Countrey of the Birnes and Tooles, which Pheagh mac Hugh hath, and in all the lands of the Cavanaghes, which are now in rebellion, and all the lands which will fall to her Maiestie there-abouts, which I know to be very spacious and large enough to containe them, being very * 1.15 neere twenty or thir∣ty miles wyde.

Eudox.

But then what will you doe with all the Birnes, the Tooles, and the Cavanaghes, and all those that now are joyned with them.

Iren.

At the same very time, and in the same very manner that I make that Proclamation to them of Vlster, will I have it also made to these, and upon their submission thereunto, I will take like assurance of them as of the other. After which I will translate all that remaine of them, unto the places of the other in Vlster, with all their Creete,

& what else they have left them, the which I will cause to be divided amongst them in some meete sort, as each may thereby have some∣what to sustaine himselfe a while withall, untill by his further tra∣vaile and labour of the Earth, hee shalbe able to provide himselfe better.

Eudox.

But will you give the land then freely unto them, and make them heires of the former Rebells? so may you perhaps make them also heires of all their former villainies and disorders, or how else will you dispose of them?

Iren.

Not so: But all the lands will I give unto Englishmen, whom I will have drawne thither, who shall have the same with such estates as shall bee thought meete, and for such Rent, as shall eft∣soones bee rated; under every of those Englishmen will I place some of those Irish to bee Tennants, for a certaine Rent according to the quantity of such Land, as every man shall have allotted unto him, and shalbe found able to wield, wherein this speciall regard shall be had, that in no place under any Land-lord, there shall bee many of them placed together, but dispersed wide from their acquaintance, and scattered farre abroad thorough all the Country: For that is the evill which now I finde in all Ireland, that the Irish dwell altogether by their septs, and severall nations, so as they may practise or con∣spire what they will, whereas if there were English well placed a∣mong them, they should not bee able once to stirre or to murmure, but that it should be knowne, and they shortened according to their demerites.

Eudox.

You have good reason, but what rating of rents meane you, to what end doe you purpose the same?

Iren.

My purpose is to rate the rent of all those lands of her Maie∣sties, in such sort unto those Englishmen which shall take them, as they shall be well able to live thereupon, to yeeld her Maiesty rea∣sonable Chiefrie, and also give a competent maintenance unto the garrisons, which shall be there left amongst them; for those Souldi∣ours (as I tolde you) remaining of the former garrisons, I cast to maintaine upon the rent of those landes, which shall bee escheated, and to have them divided thorough all Ireland, in such places, as shalbe thought most convenient, and occasion may require. And this was the course which the Romanes observed in the Conquest of England, for they planted some of their Legions in all places convenient, the which they caused the Countrey to maintaine, cutting upon every portion of land a reasonable rent, which they called Romescot, the which might not surcharge the Tennant or Free-holder, and might defray the pay of the Garrison: and this hath beene alwayes observed by all Princes in all Countries to them newly subdued, to set Garrisons amongst them, to containe them in dutie, whose burthen they made them to beare, and the want of this ordinance in the first conquest of Ireland by Henry the Se∣cond, was the cause of the so short decay of that government, and the

quicke recovery againe of the Irish. Therefore by all meanes it is to bee provided for. And this is that I would blame, if it should not misbecome mee, in the late planting of Moun∣ster, that no care was had of this Ordinance, nor any strength of garrison provided for, by a certaine allowance out of all the saide Landes, but onely the present profite looked into, and the safe continuance thereof for ever heereafter negle∣cted.

Eudox.

But there is a Band of Souldiours layde in Mounster, to the maintenance of which, what oddes is there whether the Queene receiving the rent of the Countrey, doe give pay at her pleasure, or that there be a settled allowance appointed unto them out of her lands there?

Iren.

There is great oddes: For now that said rent of the Coun∣trey is not appointed to the pay of the Souldiers, but it is by every other occasion comming betweene, converted to other uses, and the Souldiours in time of peace discharged and neglected as unnecessa∣ry, whereas if the said rent were appointed and ordained by an esta∣blishment to this end only, it should not bee turned to any other, nor in troublous times upon every occasion, her Majestie, bee so troubled with sending over new Souldiours as shee is now, nor the Countrie ever should dare to mutinie, having still the Soul∣diour in their necke, nor any forraine enemie dare to invade knowing there so strong and great a Garrison, allwayes ready to receive them.

Eudox.

Sith then you thinke that this Romescot of the pay of the Souldiours upon the land, to be both the readiest way to the Souldi∣ers, and least troublesome to her Majestie; tell us (I pray you) how would you have the said lands rated, that both a rent may rise there∣out unto the Queene, and also the Souldiers receive pay, which (mee thinkes) wilbe hard.

Iren.

First we are to consider, how much land there is in all Vlster, that according to the quantity thereof we may cesse the said rent and allowāce issuing therout. Vlster (as the ancient records of that Realme doe testifie) doth containe 9000. Plow-lands, every of which Plow-lands containeth 120. Acres, after the rate of 21. foote to every perch of the Acre, every of which Plow-lands I will rate at 40^s. by the yeare, the which yearely rent amounteth in the whole to 18000^l. besides 6^s.8^d. chiefrie out of every Plow-land. But because the coun∣tie of Louth, being a part of Vlster, & containing in it 712. Plow-lands is not wholly to escheate to her Majestie, as the rest, they having in all their warres continued for the most part dutifull, though other∣wise a great part thereof is now under the Rebells, there is an abate∣ment to be made thereout of 400. or 500. Plow-lands, as I estimat the same, the which are not to pay the whole yearly rent of 40^s. out of e∣very Plow-land, like as the escheated lands doe, but yet shall pay for their composition of cesse towards the keeping of Soldiers, 20^s. out of

every Plow-land, so as there is to bee deducted out of the former summe 200. or 300^l. yearely, the which may neverthelesse be suppli∣by the rent of the Fishings, which are exceeding great in Vlster, and also by an increase of rent in the best lands, and those that lye in the best places neere the Sea-coast. The which eighteene thousand pounds will defray the entertainment of 1500. Souldiers, with some over-plus towardes the pay of the victuallers, which are to bee im∣ployed in the victualling of these garrisons.

Eudox.

So then belike you meane to leave 1500. Souldiers in garrison for Vlster, to bee payde principally out of the rent of those lands, which shall be there escheated unto her Majestie. The which, where (I pray you) will you have them garrisoned?

Iren.

I will have them divided into three parts, that is, 500. in e∣very garrison, the which I will have to remaine in three of the same places, where they were before appointed, to wit, 500. at Stra∣bane, and about Longhfoile, so as they may holde all the passa∣ges of that part of the Countrey, and some of them bee put in wardes, upon all the straights thereabouts, which I know to be such, as may stoppe all passages into the Countrey on that side, and some of them also upon the Ban, up towardes Lough-Sidney, as I formerly directed. Also other 500. at the Fort upon Lough-Earne, and wardes taken out of them, which shall bee layde at Fermannagh, at Bealick, at Ballyshannon, and all the streightes to∣wardes Connaght, the which I know doe so strongly command all the passages that way, as that none can passe from Vlster into Connaght, without their leave. The last 500. shall also remaine in their Fort at Monoghan, and some of them bee drawne in∣to wardes, to keepe the Kaies of all that Countrey, both down∣wards, and also towardes O Relies Countrey, and the Pale, and some at Eniskillin, some at Belturbut, some at the blacke Fort, and so along that River, as I formerly shewed in the first plan∣ting of them. And moreover at every of these Forts, I would have the seate of a Towne layde forth and incompassed, in the which I would wish that there should inhabitants of all sortes, as Merchants, Artificers, and Husbandmen, bee placed, to whom there should Charters, and Fraunchises bee graunted to imcorporate them. The which as it wilbe no matter of difficultie to draw out of England, persons which would very gladly be so pla∣ced, so would it in short space turne those parts to great commodity, and bring ere long to her Majestie much profit, for those places are so fit for trade and trafficke, having most convenient out-gates by divers rivers to the Sea, and In-gates to the richest parts of the land, that they would soone be enriched, and mightily enlarged, for the very seating of the garrisons by them, besides the safetie and assurance which they shall worke unto them, will also draw thither store of people and trade, as I have seene ensample at Mariborogh and Philipstowne in Leinster, where by reason of those two Fortes,

though there were but small wardes left in them, there are two good Townes now growne, which are the greatest stay of both those two Countries.

Eudox.

Indeed (me thinkes) three such Townes as you say, would doe very well in those places with the Garrisons, and in short space would be so augmented, as they would bee able with little to in-wall themselves strongly, but for the planting of all the rest of the Countrey, what order would you take?

Iren.

What other then (as I said) to bring people out of Eng∣land, which should inhabite the same, whereunto though I doubt not but great troopes would be readie to runne, yet for that in such cases, the worst and most decayed men are most ready to remove, I would wish them rather to bee chosen out of all partes of this Realme, ei∣ther by discretion of wise men thereunto appointed, or by lot, or by the drumme, as was the olde use in sending forth of Colonies, or such other good meanes as shall in their wisedome bee thought meetest. Amongst the chiefe of which, I would have the land sett into Seigniories, in such sort as it is now in Mounster, and divided into Hundreds and Parishes, or Wardes, as it is in England, and layde out into Shires, as it was aunciently, viz. The Countie of Downe, the Countie of Antrim, the Countie of Louth, the Countie of Armaghe, the Countie of Cavan, the Countie of * 1.16 Colerane, the Countie of Monoghan, the Countie of Tirone, the Countie of Fer∣mannagh, the Countie of Donnegall, being in all tenne. Over all which I wish a Lord President, and a Councell to bee placed, which may keepe them afterwards in awe and obedience, and mini∣ster unto them Iustice and equity.

Eudox.

Thus I see the whole purpose of your plot for Vlster, and now I desire to heare your like opinion for Connaght.

Iren.

By that which I have already said of Vlster, you may gather my opinion for Connaght, being very answereable to the former. But for that the lands which shal therein escheat unto her Maiesty, are not so intirely together, as that they can be accōpted in one summe, it nee∣deth that they be cōsidered severally. The Province of Connaght in the whole containeth (as appeareth by the records of Dublin) 7200 plow lands of the former measure, and is of late divided into sixe Shires or Counties. The Countie of * 1.17 Clare, the Countie of Leytrim, the Countie of Roscoman, the countie of Galway, the countie of Maio, & the Countie of Sligo. Of the which all the Countie of Sligo, all the Countie of Maio, the most part of the Countie of Roscoman, the most part of the Countie of Letrim, a great part of the county of Galway, & some of the county of Clare, is like to escheat to her Maiesty for the rebelliō of their present possessors. The which two counties of Sligo & Maio are supposed to containe almost 3000. plow-lands, the rent whereof rateably to the former, I valew almost at 6000^l. per annum. The countie of Roscoman, saving that which pertaineth to the house of Roscoman, & some few o∣ther English there lately seated, is all one, and therefore it is wholly

likewise to escheate to her Majesty, saving those portions of English inhabitants, and even those English doe (as I understand by them) pay as much rent to her Majesty, as is set upon those in Vlster, counting their composition money therewithall, so as it may all run into one reckoning with the former two counties: So that this county of Ros∣coman containing 1200. Plow-lands, as it is accompted, amounteth to 2400^li. by the yeare, which with the former two counties rent, maketh about 8300^l. for the former wanted somewhat. But what the escheated lands of the county of Gallway and Letrim will rise unto, is yet uncertaine to define, till survey thereof be made, for that those lands are intermingled with the Earle of Clanricardes, and others lands, but it is thought they be the one halfe of both those counties, so as they may be counted to the value of one whole county, which containeth above 1000. plough-lands, for so many the least county of them all comprehendeth, which maketh 2000^li. more, that is in all ten or eleven thousand pounds. The other 2. counties must remaine till their Escheates appeare, the which letting passe yet, as unknowne, yet this much is knowne to be accompted for certaine, that the com∣position of these two counties, being rated at 20. shil: every plowland, will amount to above 2000. pounds more, all which being laide to∣gether to the former, may be reasonably estimated to rise unto 13000 pounds, the which summe, together with the rent of the escheated lands in the two last countyes, which cannot yet be valued (being as I doubt not) no lesse then a thousand pounds more, will yeeld pay largely unto 1000. men and their victuallers, and 1000. pounds over towards the Governour.

Eudox.

You have (me thinkes) made but an estimate of those lands of Connaght, even at a very venture, so as it should be hard to build any certainty of charge, to be raised upon the same.

Iren.

Not altogether yet upon uncertainties, for this much may easily appeare unto you to be certaine, as the composition money of every plowland amounteth unto, for this I would have you princi∣pally to understand, that my purpose is to rate all the lands in Ire∣land at 20. shil: every plowland, for their composition towards the Garrison. The which I know in regard of being freed from all other charges whatsoever, will be readily and most gladly yeelded unto. So that there being in all Ireland (as appeareth by their old records) 43920. plowlands, the same shall amount to the summe likewise of 43920. pounds, and the rest to be reared of the escheated lands which fall to her Majesty in the said Provinces of Vlster, Connaght, and that part of Leinster under the Rebells, for Mounster wee deale not yet withall.

Eudox.

But tell me this by the way, doe you then lay compositi∣on upon the escheated lands as you doe upon the rest? for so (mee thinkes) you reckon alltogether. And that sure were too much to pay 7. Nobles out of every plowland, and composition money be∣sides, that is 20. shil: out of every plowland.

Iren.

No, you mistake me, I doe put onely 7. Nobles rent and composition both upon every plowland escheated, that is 40. shil: for composition, and 6. shil: 8. pence for Cheiferie to her Maje∣stie.

Eudox.

I doe now conceive you, proceede then (I pray you) to the appointing of your Garrisons in Connaght, and shew us both how many and where you would have them placed?

Iren.

I would have 1000. laide in Connaght, in 2. Garrisons, name∣ly 500. in the county of Mayo, about Clan Mac Costilagh, which shall keepe all Mayo and the Bourkes of Mac William Eighter: The other 500. in the county of Galway, about Garrandough, that they may con∣taine the Conhors and the Bourkes there, the Kellies and Murries, with all them there-abouts, for that Garrison which I formerly placed at Loughearne will serve for all occasions in the County of Sligo, being neere adjoyning thereunto, so as in one nights march, they may bee almost in any place thereof, when neede shall require them. And like as in the former places of Garrisons in Vlster, I wished three corpo∣rate townes to be planted, which under the safeguard of that strength should dwell and trade safely with all the Countrey about them; so would I also wish to be in this of Connaght: and that besides, there were another established at Athlone, with a convenient ward in the Castle there for their defence.

Iren.

What should that neede, seeing the Governour of Connaght useth to lye there alwayes, whose presence will bee a defence to all that Towneship?

Iren.

I know he doth so, but that is much to be disliked, that the Governour should lye so farre of, in the remotest place of all the pro∣vince, whereas it were meeter that he should be continually abiding in the middest of the charge, that he might both looke out alike, unto all places of his government, and also be soone at hand in any place, where occasion shall demand him, for the presence of the Governour is (as you said) a great stay and bridle unto those that are ill disposed: like as I see it is well observed in Mounster, where the dayly good thereof is continually apparant: and for this cause also, doe I greatly mislike the Lord Deputies seating at Dublin, being the outest corner of the Realme, and least needing the awe of his presence, whereas (me thinkes) it were fitter, since his proper care is of Leinster, though he have care of all besides generally, that he should seate himselfe at Athie, or there-abouts, upon the skirt of that unquiet countrey, so that he might sit as it were at the very maine maste of his Ship, whence he might easily overlooke and sometimes over-reach the Moores, the Dempsies, the Connors, O-Carroll, O-Molloy, and all that heape of Irish na∣tions which there lye hudled together, without any to over-awe them, or containe them in dutie. For the Irishman (I assure you) feares the governement no longer, then he is within sight or reach.

Eudox.

Surely (me thinkes) herein you observe a matter of much importance more then I have heard ever noted, but sure that seemes

so expedient, as that I wonder that heretofore it hath beene over∣seene or omitted, but I suppose the instance of the Citizens of Dublin is the greatest lett thereof.

Iren.

Truely then it ought not so to be, for no cause have they to feare that it will be any hinderance to them, for Dublin will bee still as it is the key of all passages and transportations out of England thi∣therto, no lesse profit of those Cittizens, then it now is, and besides o∣ther places will hereby receive some benefit: But let us now (I pray you) come to Leinster, in the which I would wish the same course to be observed, that was in Vlster.

Eudox.

You meane for the leaving of the Garrisons in their forts, and for planting of English in all those Countryes, betweene the county of Dublin and the county of Wexford, but those waste wilde places I thinke when they are won unto her Majesty, that there is none which will be hasty to seeke to inhabite.

Iren:

Yes enough, (I warrant you) for though the whole tracke of the Countrey be mountainous and woody, yet there are many good∣ly valleyes amongst them, fit for faire habitations, to which those mountaines adjoyned will be a great increase of pasturage, for that Countrey is a great soyle of cattle, and very fit for breed as for corne it is nothing naturall, save onely for Barly and Oates, and some places for Rye, and therefore the larger penny-worthes may be allowed to them, though otherwise the widenes of the mountaine pasturage doe recompence the badnes of the soyle, so as I doubt not, but it will find inhabitants and undertakers enough.

Eudox.

How much doe you thinke that all those lands which Feagh Mac Hugh houldeth under him, may amount unto, and what rent may be reared thereout, to the maintenance of the Garrisons that shall be laide there?

Iren.

Truely it is impossible by ayme to tell it, and for experience and knowledge thereof, I doe not thinke that there was every any of the particulars thereof, but yet I will (if it please you) guesse thereat, upon ground onely of their judgement which have formerly devi∣ded all that country into 2. sheires or countyes: Namely the countie of Wicklow, and the county of * 1.18 Fernes, the which 2. I see no cause but that they should wholly escheate to her Majesty, all save the Barony of Ar••l•• which is the Earle of Ormond's auncient inheritance, and hath ever been in his possession, for all the whole land is the Queenes, unlesse there be some grant of any part thereof, to bee shewed from her Majesty▪ As I thinke there is onely of New Castle to Sir Henry Har∣rington, and of the Castle of Fernes to Sir Thomas Masterson, the rest being almost 30. miles over, I doe suppose, can containe no lesse rhen 2000. plowlands, which I will estimate at 4000. pounds rent, by the yeare. The rest of Leinster being 7. Counties, to wit, the County of Dublin, Kildare, Catherlagh, Wexford, Kilkenny, the Kings & the Queenes county, doe containe in them 7400. plowlands, which amounteth to so many pounds for composition to the Garrison, that makes in the

whole 11400. pounds, which summe will yeeld pay unto 1000. Souldiours, little wanting, which may be supplied out of other lands of the Cavenaghes, which are to be escheated to her Majesty, for the Rebellion of their possessors, though otherwise indeede they bee of her owne ancient demeasne.

Eudox.

It is great reason. But tell us now where you will wish those Garrisons to be laide, whether altogether, or to bee dispersed in sundry places of the country?

Iren.

Marry in sundry places, viz. in this sort, or much the like as may be better advised, for 200. in a place, I doe thinke to bee enough, for the safeguard of that country, and keeping under all sud∣daine upstarts, that shall seeke to trouble the peace thereof, therefore I wish 200. to be laide at Ballinecor, for the keeping of all bad persons from Glan-malo, and all the fastnes there-abouts, and also to containe all that shall be planted in those lands thenceforth. Another 200. at Knockelough in their former place of Garrison, to keepe the Bracknagh and all those mountaines of the Cavenaghes, 200. more to lie at Fernes and upwards, inward upon the S••ane, 200. to be placed at the fort of Leix, to restraine the Moores, vpper-Ossory, and O-Carrol, other 200. at the fort of Ofaly, to curbe the O-Connors, O-Molloyes, Mac Coghlan, Mageoghegan, and all those Irish Nations bordering there-abouts.

Eudox.

Thus I see all your men bestowed in Leinster, what say you then of Meath?

Iren.

Meath which containeth both East Meath, and West Meath, and of late the Annaly, now called the county of Longford, is counted ther∣unto: But Meath it selfe according to the old records, containeth 4320. plowlands, & the county of Longford 947. which in the whole makes 5267. plowlands, of which the composition money will a∣mount likewise to 5267. pounds, to the maintenance of the Garrison: But because all Meath lying in the bosome of that kingdome is all∣wayes quiet enough, it is needelesse to put any Garrison there, so as all that charge may be spared. But in the county of Longford I wish 200. footemen and 50. horsemen to bee placed in some convenient seate betweene the Annaly and the Breny, as about Lough Sillon, or some like place of that River, so as they might keepe both the O-Relies, and also the O-Ferrals, and all that out-skirt of Meath in awe, the which use upon every light occasion to be stirring, and having continuall enmity amongst themselves, doe thereby oftentimes trouble all those parts, the charge whereof being 3400. and odde pounds is to be cut out of that composition money for Meath and Longford, the over-plus being almost 2000. pounds by the yeare, will come in clear∣ly to he Majesty.

Eudox.

It is worth the hearkening unto: But now that you have done with Meath, proceede (I pray you) to Mounster, that wee may see how it will rise there for the maintenance of the Garrison.

Iren.

Mounster containeth by record at Dublin 16000. plow∣lands, the composition whereof, as the rest will make 16000. pounds

by the yeare, out of the which I would have 1000. Souldiours to be maintained for the defence of that Province, the charge whereof with the victuallers wages, will amount to 12000. pounds by the yeare, the other 4000. pounds will defray the charge of the Presidency and the Councell of that Province.

Eudox.

The reckoning is easie, but in this accompt, by your leave, (me thinkes) you are deceived, for in this summe of the composition money, you accompt the lands of the undertakers of that Province, who are by their graunt from the Queene, to bee free from all such impositions whatsoever, excepting their onelie Rent, which is surely enough.

Iren.

You say true, I did so, but the same 20. shil: for every plow∣land, I meant to have deducted out of that rent due upon them to her Majesty, which is no hinderance, nor charge at all more to her Maje∣sty then it now is, for all that rent which shee receives of them, shee putteth forth againe to the maintenance of the Presidency there, the charge wherof, it doth scarcely defray, whereas in this accompt both that charge of the Presidency, and also of a thousand Souldiours more, shall be maintained.

Eudox.

It should be well if it could be brought to that: But now where will you have your thousand men garrisond?

Iren.

I would have a hundred of them placed at the Bantry where is a most fit place, not onely to defend all that side of the west part from forraine invasion, but also to answere all occasions of troubles, to which that Countrey being so remote is very subject: And surely there also would be planted a good towne, having both a good haven and a plentifull fishing, and the land being already escheated to her Majesty, but being forcibly kept from her, by one that proclaimes himselfe the Bastard Son of the Earle of Clancar, being called Donell Mac Carty, whom it is meete to foresee to. For whensoever the Earle shall die, all those lands (after him) are to come unto her Maje∣sty, he is like to make a foule stirre there, though of himselfe no power, yet through supportance of some others who lye in the wind, and looke after the fall of that inheritance. Another hundred I would have placed at Castle Mayne, which should keepe all Desmond and Kerry, for it answereth them both most conveniently: Also about Kilmore in the county of Corke would I have 2. hundred placed, the which should breake that nest of theives there, and answere equally both to the county of Limericke, and also the county of Corke: Another hun∣dred would I have lye at Corke, aswell to command the towne, as al∣so to be ready for any forraine occasion: Likewise at Waterford, would I place 2. hundred, for the same reasons, and also for other privy causes, that are no lesse important: Moreover on this side of Arlo, neere to Muskery quirke, which is the Countrey of the Burkes, about Kill-Patricke, I would have two hundred more to be garrisond, which should skoure both the white Knights country and Arlo, and Muske∣ry quirk, by which places all the passages of Theives doe lye, which

convey their stealth from all Mounster downewards towards Tip∣perary, and the English pale, and from the English pale also up unto Mounster, whereof they use to make a common trade: Besides that, ere long I doubt that the county of Tipperary it selfe, will neede such a strength in it, which were good to be there ready before the evill fall, that is dayly of some expected: And thus you see all your Garri∣sons placed.

Eudox.

I see it right well, but let me (I pray you) by the way aske you the reason, why in those Citties of Mounster, namely Waterford and Corke, you rather placed Garrisons, then in all others in Ireland. For they may thinke themselves to have great wrong to bee so char∣ged above all the rest?

Iren.

I will tell you, those two Citties, above all the rest, doe offer an in-gate to the Spaniard most fitly: But yet because they shall not take exceptions to this, that they are charged above all the rest, I will also lay a charge upon the others likewise, for indeed it is no reason that the corporate townes enioying great franchizes and priviledges from her Majesty, and living thereby not onely safe, but drawing to them the wealth of all the land, should live so free, as not to be parta∣kers of the burthen of this Garrison, for their owne safety, specially in this time of trouble, and seeing all the rest burthened (and there∣fore) I will thus charge them all ratably, according to their abilities towards their maintenance, the which her Majesty may (if she please) spare out of the charge of the rest, and reserve towards her other costes, or else adde to the charge of the presidency in the North.

Waterford

C.

Corke

L.

Limericke

L.

Galway

L.

Dinglecush

X.

Kinsale

X.

Yoghall

X.

Kilmallock

X.

Clonmell

X.

Cashell

X.

Fedard

X.

Kilkenny

XXV.

Wexford

XXV.

Tredagh

XXV.

Rosse

XXV.

Dundalke

X.

Mollingare

X.

Newrie

X.

Trim

X.

Ardee

X.

Kells

X.

Dublin

C.

In all 580.

Eudox.

It is easie Irenaeus to lay a charge upon any towne, but to foresee how the same may be answered and defrayed, is the cheife part of good advisement.

Iren.

Surely this charge which I put upon them, I know to bee so reasonable, as that it will not much be felt, for the port Townes that have benefit of shipping, may cut it easily off their trading, and in land townes of their corne and cattle, neither doe I see, but since to them especially the benefit of peace doth redound, that they especi∣ally should beare the burthen of their safeguard and defence, as wee see all the townes of the Low-Countryes, doe cut upon themselves an excise of all things towards the maintenance of the warre that is made in their behalfe, to which though these are not to be compared

in richesse, yet are they to bee charged according to their po∣vertie.

Eudox.

But now that you have thus set up these forces of Soldi∣ers, and provided well (as you suppose) for their pay, yet there re∣maineth to fore-cast how they may bee victualled, and where pur∣veyance thereof may bee made, for in Ireland it selfe, I cannot see almost how any thing is to bee had for them, being already so pittifully wasted, as it is with this short time of warre.

Iren.

For the first two yeares, it is needefull indeede that they bee victualled out of England thoroughly, from halfe yeare to halfe yeare, afore-hand. All which time the English Pale shall not bee burdened at all, but shall have time to re∣cover themselves, and Mounster also being reasonably well sto∣red, will by that time, (if God send seasonable weather) bee thoroughly well furnished to supply a great part of that charge, for I knowe there is great plenty of Corne, sent over Sea from thence, the which, if they might have sale for at home, they would bee glad to have money so neere hand, specially if they were streightly restrayned from transporting of it. Thereunto also there will bee a great helpe and furtherance gi∣ven, in the putting forward of husbandrie, in all meete pla∣ces, as heereafter shall in due place appeare. But heereafter when things shall growe unto a better strength, and the Coun∣trey bee replenished with Corne, as in short space it will, if it bee well followed, for the Countrey people themselves are great plowers, and small spenders of Corne, then would I wish that there should bee good store of Houses and Magazins ere∣cted in all those great places of garrison, and in all great townes, as well for the victualling of Souldiers, and Shippes, as for all Occasions of suddaine services, as also for preventing of all times of dearth and scarcitie; and this want is much to bee com∣playned of in England, above all other Countreyes, who trusting too much to the usuall blessing of the Earth, doe never fore-cast any such hard seasons, nor any such suddaine occasions as these troublous times may every day bring foorth, when it will bee too late to gather provision from abroad, and to bring it per∣happes from farre, for the furnishing of Shippes or Souldiers, which peradventure may neede to bee presently imployed, and whose want may (which GOD forbid) hap to hazard a King∣dome.

Eudox.

Indeede the want of those Magazins of victualls, I have oftentimes complayned of in England, and wondered at in other Countreyes, but that is nothing now to our purpose; but as for these garrisons which you have now so strongly planted throgh∣out all Ireland, and every place swarming with Souldiers, shall there bee no end of them? For now thus being (me thinkes) I doe see rather a Countrey of warre, then of peace & quiet, which you

earst pretended to worke in Ireland, for if you bring all things to that quietnesse that you said, what then needeth to maintaine so great for∣ces, as you have charged upon it.

Iren.

I will unto you Eudox. in privitie discover the drift of my purpose, I meane (as I tolde you) and doe well hope thereby both to settle an eternall peace in that Countrey, and also to make it very profitable to her Majestie, the which I see must bee brought in with a strong hand, and so continued, till it runne in a stead∣fast course of governement, which in this sort will neither bee difficult nor dangerous, for the Souldier being once brought in for the service into Vlster, and having subdued it and Connaght, I will not have him to lay downe his Armes any more, till hee have effe∣cted that which I purpose, that is, first to have this generall compo∣sition for maintenance of these thoroughout all the Realme, in re∣gard of the troublous times, and daylie danger which is threatned to this Realme by the King of Spaine. And thereupon to bestow all my Souldiers in such sort as I have done, that no part of all that Re∣alme shall be able to dare to quinch: Then will I eftsoones bring in my reformation, and thereupon establish such a forme of govern∣ment, as I may thinke meetest for the good of that Realme, which being once settled, and all things put into a right way, I doubt not but they will runne on fairely. And though they would ever seeke to swerve aside, yet shall they not bee able without forreine vio∣lence, once to remoove, as you your selfe shall soone (I hope) in your own reason readily conceive, which if it shall ever appeare, then may her Majestie at pleasure with-draw some of the garrisons, and turne their pay into her Purse, or if shee will never please so to doe (which I would rather wish) then shall shee have a number of brave olde Souldiers alwayes ready for any occasion that shee shee will imploy them unto, supplying their garrisons with fresh ones in their steed. The maintenance of whome, shall bee no more charge to her Majestie, then now that Re∣alme is, for all the revenue thereof, and much more shee spend∣eth, even in the most peaceable times, that are there, as things now stand. And in time of warre, which is now surely every se∣venth yeare, shee spendeth infinite treasure besides, to small pur∣pose.

Eudox.

I perceive your purpose, but now that you have thus strongly made way unto your reformation, and that I see the people so humbled and prepared, that they will and must yeeld to any Ordinance that shall bee given them. I doe much de∣sire to understand the same; for in the beginning you promi∣sed to shewe a meanes how to redresse all those inconvenien∣ces and abuses, which you shewed to bee in that state of Go∣vernment, which now stands there, as in the Lawes, Customes, and Religion, wherein I would gladly know first, whether in steed of those Lawes, you would have new lawes made, for now for ought

that I see, you may doe what you please.

Iren.

I see Eudox. That you well remember our first purpose, and doe rightly continue the course thereof. First therefore to speake of lawes, since wee first beganne with them, I doe not thinke it now convenient, though it bee in the power of the Prince to change all the lawes, and make new; for that should breede a great trouble and confusion, aswell in the English there dwelling, and to be planted, as also in the Irish. For the English having beene alwayes trayned up in the English governement, will hardly bee inured to any o∣ther, and the Irish will better be drawne to the English, then the English to the Irish governement. Therefore sithence wee cannot now apply lawes fit to the people, as in the first institutions of common-wealths it ought to bee, wee will apply the people, and fit them unto the Lawes, as it most conveniently may bee. The Lawes therefore wee resolve shall abide in the same sort that they doe, both Common-law and Statutes, onely such de∣fects in the common-law, and inconveniences in the Statutes, as in the beginning wee noted, and as men of deeper insight shall advise, may be changed by some other new acts and ordinances to bee by a Parlament there confirmed. As those for tryalls of pleas of the Crowne, and private rights betweene parties, colourable conveyan∣ces and accessaries.

Eudox.

But how will those be redressed by Parlament, when as the Irish which sway most in Parlament (as you said) shall oppose themselves against them?

Iren.

That may well now bee avoyded: For now that so many Free-holders of English shall bee established, they together with Burgesses of Townes, and such other loyall Irish-men, as may bee preferred to bee Knights of the Shire, and such like, will bee able to beard, and to counter-poise the rest, who also being now more brought in awe, will the more easily submit to any such ordinan∣ces as shall bee for the good of themselves, and that Realme ge∣nerally.

Eudox.

You say well, for by the increase of Free-holders, for their numbers hereby will be greatly augmented, but how shall it passe thorough the higher house, which still must consiste all of Irish?

Iren.

Marry that also may bee redressed by ensample of that which I have heard was done in the like case by King Edward the third (as I remember) who being greatly bearded and crossed by the Lords of the Cleargie, they being there by reason of the Lords Abbots, and others, too many and too strong for him, so as hee could not for their frowardnesse, order and reforme things as hee desired, was advised to direct out his Writts to cer∣taine Gentle-men of the best ability and trust, entituling them therein Barons, to serve, and sitt as Barons in the next Parlament. By which meanes hee had so many

Barons in his Parlament, as were able to weigh downe the Cleargy and their friends: The which Barons they say, were not afterwardes Lords, but onely Baronets, as sundry of them doe yet retayne the name. And by the like device her Maiestie may now likewise curbe and cut short those Irish and unruly Lords, that hinder all good pro∣ceedings.

Eudox.

It seemes no lesse then for reforming of all those inconve∣nient Statutes that you noted in the beginning, and redressing of all those evill customes: and lastly, for settling of sound Religion a∣mongst them, me thinkes you shall not neede any more to over-goe those particulars againe, which you mentioned, nor any other which might besides be remembred, but to leave all to the reformation of such a Parlament, in which, by the good care of the Lord Deputie & Councell, they may all be amended. Therfore now you may come un∣to that generall reformation which you spake of, and bringing in of that establishment, by which you said all men should be contained in duty ever after, without the terror of warlike forces, or violent wre∣sting of things by sharpe punishments.

Iren.

I will so at your pleasure, the which (me thinkes) can by no meanes be better plotted, then by ensample of such other Realmes as have beene annoyed with like evills, that Ireland now is, and useth still to bee. And first in this our Realme of England, it is manifest by report of the Chronicles, and auncient Writers, that it was greatly infested with Robbers and Out-lawes, which lurking in Woods and fast places, used often to breake foorth into the high-wayes, and sometimes into small villages to robbe and spoyle. For re∣dresse whereof it is written, that King Alured, or Aldred, did di∣vide the Realme into * 1.19 Shires, and the Shires into Hundreds, and the Hundreds into Lathes or Wapentackes, and the Wa∣pentackes into Tythings▪ So that tenne Tythings make an Hundred, and five made a Lathe or Wapentake, of which tenne, each one was bound for another, and the eldest or best of them whom they called the Tythingman or Borsolder, that is, the eldest pledge became sure∣ty for all the rest. So that if any one of them did start into any undu∣tifull action, the Borsolder was bound to bring him forth, who joy∣ning eft-soones with all his Tything, would follow that loose per∣son thorough all places, till they brought him in. And if all that Tything fayled, then all that Lathe was charged for that Ty∣thing, and if that Lathe fayled, then all that Hundred was demaunded for them; and if the Hundred, theh the Shire, who joyning eft-soones together, would not rest till they had found out and delivered in that undutifull fellow, which was not amesnable to Law. And heerein it seemes, that that good Saxon King follow∣ed the counsell of Iethro to Moyses, who advised him to divide the people into Hundreds, and to set Captaines and wise men of trust over them, who should take the charge of them, and ease of that burthen. And so did Romulus (as you may read) divide the Romanes

into * 1.20 Tribes, and the Tribes into Centuries or Hundreths. By this ordi∣nance, this King brought this Realme of England, (which before was most troublesome) unto that quiet State, that no one bad person could stirre, but he was straight taken holde of by those of his owne Tything, and their Borsholder, who being his neighbor or next kins∣man were privie to all his wayes, and looked narrowly into his life. The which institution (if it were observed in Ireland) would worke that effect which it did in England, and keep all men within the com∣passe of dutie and obedience.

Eudox.

This is contrary to that you said before; for as I remem∣ber, you said, that there was a great disproportion betweene England and Ireland, so as the lawes, which were fitting for one, would not fit the other. How comes it now then, that you would transfferre a prin∣cipall institution from England to Ireland?

Iren.

This law was not made by the Norman Conqueror, but by a Saxon King, at what time England was very like to Ireland, as now it stands: for it was (as I tolde you) annoyed greatly with Rob∣bers and Out-lawes, which troubled the whole state of the Re∣alme, every corner having a Robin Hood in it, that kept the woods, and spoyled all passengers and Inhabitants, as Ireland now hath, so as me thinkes, this ordinance would fit very well, and bring them all into awe.

Eudox.

Then when you have thus tythed the Communalty, as you say, and set Borsolders over them all, what would you doe, when you came to the Gentle-men, would you holde the same course?

Iren.

Yea marry, most especially; for this you must know, that all the Irish almost boast themselves to be Gentlemen, no lesse then the Welsh; for if he can derive himselfe from the head of any Sept, (as most of them can, they are so expert by their Bardes) then hee holdeth himselfe a Gentleman, and thereupon scorneth to worke, or use any hard labour, which hee saith, is the life of a Peasant or Churle: But thenceforth becommeth either an horse-boy, or a Stocah to some Kerne, inuring himselfe to his weapon, and to the gentlemanly-trade-of stealing (as they count it.) So that if a gentleman or any wealthy man Yeoman of them, have any Chil∣dren, the eldest of them perhaps shall be kept in some order, but all the rest shall shift for themselves, and fall to this occupation. And moreover it is a common use amongst some of their Gentlemens sonnes, that so soone as they are able to use their Weapons, they straight gather to themselves three or foure straglers, or Kearne, with whom wandring a while up and downe idlely the Countrey, taking onely meate, hee at last falleth unto some bad occasion that shall be offered, which being once made knowne, hee is thenceforth counted a man of worth, in whome there is courage, whereupon there draw to him many other like loose young men, which stirring him up with incouragement, provoke

him shortly to flat Rebellion, and this happens not onely some∣times in the sonnes of their Gentle-men, but also of their Noble-men, specially of them who have base Sonnes. For they are not onely not ashamed to acknowledge them, but also boaste of them, and use them to such secret services, as they themselves will not be seene in, as to plague their Enemyes, to spoyle their Neighbours, to oppresse and crush some of their owne too stubburne Free-holders, which are not tractable to their wills.

Eudox.

Then it seemeth that this ordinance of tithing them by the pole, is not onely fit for the Gentle-men, but also for the Noble-men, whom I would have thought to have beene of so honourable a minde, as that they should not neede such a kinde of being bound to their allegiance, who should rather have held in, and stayde all the other from undutifulnesse, then neede to bee forced thereunto themselves.

Iren.

Yet so it is Eudoxus; but because that Noble-men cannot be tythed, there being not many tythings of them, and also because a Borsolder over them, should be not onely a great indignitie, but also a danger to adde more power to them then they have, or to make one the commander of tenne, I holde it meeter that there were onely sureties taken of them, and one bound for another, whereby if any shall swerve, his sureties shall for safe-guard of their Bonds, either bring him in, or seeke to serve upon him; and besides this, I would wish them all to bee sworne to her Majestie, which they never yet were, but at the first creation, and that Oath would sure contayne them greatly, or the breach of it bring them to shorter vengeance, for God useth to punish perjurie sharpely: So I reade, that there was a corporall Oath taken in the raignes of * 1.21 Edward the Second, and of * 1.22 Henry the Seventh, (when the times were very broken) of all the Lords and best Gentle-men, of Fealtie to the Kings, which now is no lesse needfull, because many of them are suspected to have taken an other Oath privi∣ly to some bad purposes, and thereupon to have recei∣ved the Sacrament, and beene sworne to a Priest, which they thinke bindeth them more, then their alleagiance to their Prince, or love of their Coun∣trey.

Eudox.

This tything to the Common people, and taking sure∣ties of Lords and Gentlemen, I like very well, but that it wilbe very troublesome; should it not be as well for to have them all booked, and the Lords & Gentle-men to take all the meaner sort upon them∣selves, for they are best able to bring them in, whensoever any of them starteth out.

Iren.

This indeed (Eudoxus) hath beene hitherto, and yet is a common order amongst them, to have all the people booked by the Lords and Gentlemen: but yet the worst order that ever was devised,

for by this booking of men, all the inferiour sort are brought under the command of their Lords, and forced to follow them into any action whatsoever. Now this you are to understand, that all the Re∣bellions which you see from time to time happen in Ireland, are not begun by the common people, but by the Lords and Captaines of Countries, upon pride or willfull obstinacy against the government, which whensoever they will enter into, they drawe with them all their people and followers, which thinke themselves bound to goe with them, because they have booked them and undertaken for them, and this is the reason that in England you have few such bad occasi∣ons, by reason that the noble men, how ever they should happen to be evill disposed, have no commaund at all over the Communalty, though dwelling under them, because that every man standeth upon himselfe, and buildeth his fortunes upon his owne faith and firme assurance: The which this manner of tything the poles will worke al∣so in Ireland. For by this the people are broken into many small parts like little streames, that they cannot easily come together into one head, which is the principall regard that is to be had in Ireland, to keepe them from growing unto such a head, and adhering unto great men.

Eudox.

But yet I cannot see, how this can bee well brought with∣out doing great wrong unto the noble men there, for at the first con∣quest of that Realme, those great Seigniories and Lordships were gi∣ven them by the king, that they should bee the stronger against the Irish, by the multitudes of followers and tennants under them: All which hold their tenements of them by fealty, and such services, whereby they are (by the first graunt of the King) made bounden unto them, and tyed to rise out with them into all occasions of ser∣vice. And this I have often heard, that when the Lord Deputy hath raised any generall hostings, the Noble men have claimed the lea∣ding of them, by graunt from the Kings of England, under the great Seale exhibited, so as the Deputies could not refuse them to have the leading of them, or if they did, they would so worke, as none of their followers should rise forth to the hostage.

Iren.

You say very true, but will you see the fruite of those grants, I have knowne when those Lords have had the leading of their owne followers under them to the generall hostings, that they have for the same cut upon every plowland within their country 40. shil: or more, whereby some of them have gathered above seven or eight hundred pounds, and others much more into their purse, in lieu whereof they have gathered unto themselves a number of loose Kearne out of all parts, which they have carried forth with them, to whom they ne∣ver gave any penny of entertainement, allowed by the Countrey or forced by them, but let them feede upon the Countryes, and extort upon all men where they come, for that people will never aske bet∣ter entertainement then to have a colour of service or imployment given them, by which they will pole and spoyle so outragiously, as

the very enemy cannot doe much worse: And they also sometimes turne to the enemy.

Eudox.

It seemes the first intent of those graunts was against the Irish, which now some of them use against the Queene her selfe: But now what remedy is there for this? or how can those graunts of the Kings be avoyded, without wronging of those Lords, which had those lands and Lordships given them.

Iren.

Surely they may be well enough, for most of those Lords since their first graunts, from the Kings by which those lands were given them, have sithence bestowed the most part of them amongst their Kinsfolke, as every Lord perhaps hath given in his time one another of his principall Castles to his younger Sonne, and other to others, as largely and as amply as they were given to him, and others they have sold, and others they have bought, which were not in their first graunt, which now neverthelesse they bring within the compasse thereof, and take and exact upon them, as upon their first demeasnes all those kinde of services, yea and the very wilde exactions, Coignie, Livery, * 1.23 Sorehon, and such like, by which they pole and utterly undoe the poore Tennants and Free-houlders under them, which either thorough ignorance know not their tenures, or through greatnes of their new Lords dare not challenge them, yea, and some Lords of countryes also, as great ones as themselves, are now by strong hand brought under them, and made their Vassalls. As for example Arun∣dell of the Stronde in the county of Corke, who was aunciently a great Lord, and was able to spend 3500. pounds by the yeare, as appeareth by good Recordes, is now become the Lord Barries man, and doth to him all those services, which are due unto her Majesty. For reforma∣tion of all which, I wish that there were a commission graunted forth under the great Seale, as I have seene one recorded in the old Coun∣cell Booke of Mounster, that was sent forth in the time of Sir William Drurie, unto persons of speciall trust and judgement to inquire tho∣roughout all Ireland, beginning with one county first, and so resting a while till the same were settled, by the verdict of a sound and sub∣stantiall Iury, how every man houldeth his land, of whom, and by what tenure, so that every one should be admitted to shew and exhi∣bite what right he hath, and by what services hee houldeth his land, whether in cheife or in soccage, or by Knights service, or how else soever. Thereupon would appeare, first how all those great English Lords doe claime those great services, what Seigniories they usurpe, what wardships they take from the Queene, what lands of hers they conceale: and then how those Irish Captaines of Countryes have in∣croached upon the Queenes Free-holders and Tennants, how they have translated the tenures of them from English houlding, unto Irish Tanistry, and defeated her Majesty of all her rights and dutyes, which are to acrew to her thereout, as wardships, Liveries, marriages, fines of alienations, and many other Commodities, which now are kept and concealed from her Majesty, to the value of 40000. pounds per

annum, I dare undertake in all Ireland, by that which I know in one county.

Eudox.

This Irenaeus, would seeme a dangerous commission, and ready to stirre up all the Irish in Rebellion, who knowing that they have nothing to shew for all those lands which they hould, but their Swords, would rather drawe them, then suffer the lands to bee thus drawne away from them.

Iren.

Neither should their lands be taken away from them, nor the utmost advantages inforced against them: But this by discretion of the Commissioners should be made knowne unto them, that it is not her Majesties meaning to use any such extreamity, but onely to reduce things into order of English Law, and make them hould their lands of her, and to restore to her, her due services, which they de∣taine out of those lands, which were aunciently held of her. And that they should not onely, not be thrust out, but also have estates and grants of their lands new made to them from her Majesty, so as they should thence-forth hould them rightfully, which they now usurpe wrongfully, and yet withall I would wish, that in all those Irish coun∣tryes, there were some land reserved to her Majesties free disposition for the better containing of the rest, and intermingling them with English inhabitants and customes, that knowledge might still be had of them, and of all their doings, so as no manner of practise or conspi∣racy should be had in hand, amongst them, but notice should bee given thereof by one meanes or another, and their practises prevented.

Eudox.

Truely neither can the Irish, nor yet the English Lords, thinke themselves wronged, nor hardly dealt withall herein, to have that which is indeede none of their owne at all, but her Majesties ab∣solutely given to them, with such equall conditions, as that both they may be assured thereof, better then they are, and also her Maje∣sty not defrauded of her rightly utterly, for it is a great grace in a Prince, to take that with conditions, which is absolutely her owne. Thus shall the Irish be well satisfied, and as for the great men which had such graunts made to them at first, by the Kings of England, it was in regard that they should keepe forth the Irish, and defend the Kings right, and his Subjects: but now seeing that in stead of defen∣ding them, they robbe and spoyle them, and in stead of keeping out the Irish, they doe not onely make the Irish their tennants in those lands, and thrust out the English, but also some of themselves become meere Irish, with marrying with them, with fostering with them, and combyning with them against the Queene: What reason is there but that those graunts and priviledges should bee either revoked, or at least reduced to the first intention for which they were graunted, for sure in mine opinion they are more sharpely to bee chastised and re∣formed, then the rude Irish, which being very wilde at the first, are now become more civill, when as these from civillity are growne to be wilde and meere Irish.

Iren.

Indeede as you say Eudoxus, these doe neede a sharper refor∣mation then the Irish, for they are more stubborne, and disobedient to law and governement, then the Irish be.

Eudox.

In truth Irenaeus, this is more then ever I heard, that any English there, should bee worse then the Irish: Lord how quickely doth that Countrey alter mens natures? It is not for nothing (I per∣ceive) which I have heard, that the Councell of England thinke it no good policie, to have that Realme reformed, or planted with English least they should grow so undutifull as the Irish, and become much more dangerous: As appeareth by the ensamples of the Lacies in the time of Edward the Second, which you spake of, that shooke off their allegiance to their naturall Prince, and turned to Edward le Bruce, to make him King of Ireland.

Iren.

No times have bene without bad men: but as for that pur∣pose of the Councell of England which you spake of, that they should keepe that Realme from reformation, I thinke they are most lewdly abused, for their great carefulnesse, and earnest endeavours doe wit∣nesse the contrary. Neither is it the nature of the Countrey to alter mens manners, but the bad mindes of the men, who having beene brought up at home under a straight rule of duty and obedience, be∣ing alwayes restrayned by sharpe penalties from lewde behaviour, so soone as they come thither, where they see lawes more slackely ten∣ded, and the hard restraint which they were used unto now slacked, they grow more loose and carelesse of their duty, and as it is the na∣ture of all men to love liberty, so they become flat libertines, and fall to all licentiousnes, more boldly daring to disobey the Law, tho∣rough the presumption of favour and friendship, then any Irish dareth.

Eudox.

Then if that be so, (me thinkes) your late advisement was very evill, whereby you wished the Irish to be sowed and sprinckled with English, and in all the Irish Countryes to have English planted a∣mongst them, for to bring them to English fashions, since the English sooner drawe to the Irish, then the Irish to the English: for as you said before, if they must runne with the streame, the greater number will carry away the lesse: Therefore (me thinkes) by this reason it should bee better to part the Irish and English, then to mingle them to∣gether.

Iren.

Not so Eudoxus, but where there is no good stay of Go∣vernment, and strong ordinances to hould them, there indeede the fewer will follow the more, but where there is due order of disci∣pline and good rule, there the better shall goe foremost, and the worst shall follow. And therefore now, since Ireland is full of her owne na∣tion, that ought not to be rooted out, and somewhat stored with En∣glish already, and more to be, I thinke it best by an union of manners and conformity of mindes, to bring them to be one people, and to put away the dislikefull conceipt both of the one, and the other, which will be by no meanes better, then by this intermingling of

them: For neither all the Irish may dwell together, nor all the English, but by translating of them and scattering them amongst the English, not onely to bring them by dayly conversation, unto better liking of each other, but also to make both of them lesse able to hurt. And therefore when I come to the tything of them, I will tithe them one with another, & for the most part will make an Irish man, the tything∣man, whereby he shall take the lesse exception to partiality, and yet be the more tyed thereby. But when I come to the Head Borough, which is the head of the Lathe, him will I make an English man, or an Irish man of speciall assurance: As also when I come to appoint the Alderman, that is the head of the Hundreth, him will I surely choose to be an English man of speciall regard, that may be a stay and pillar of all the Borough under him.

Eudox.

What doe you meane by your hundred, and what by your Borough? by that, that I have read in auncient records of England, an hundred did containe an hundreth villages, or as some say an hun∣dreth Plough-lands, being the same which the Saxons called * 1.24 Cantred, the which Cantred, as I finde it recorded in the Blacke Booke of [the Exchequer of] Ire∣land, did containe xxx. villatas ter∣rae, which some call quarters of land, and every villata can main∣taine 400. Cowes in pasture, and the 400. cowes to be devided into 4. heards, so as none of them shall come neere other: every villata containing 18. Plowlands, as is there set downe: & by that which I have read of a Borough it signi∣fieth a free towne, which had a principall Officer called a Head-Borough, to become Ruler, and undertake for all the dwellers un∣der him, having for the same franchises and priviledges graunted them by the King, whereof it was called a free Borough, and of the Lawyers Franci plegium.

Iren.

Both that which you said Eudoxus, is true, and yet that which I say not untrue, for that which you spake of deviding the Countrey into hundreds, was a devision of the lands of the Realme, but this which I tell, was of the people, which were thus devided by the pole: So that hundreth in this sense signifieth a 100. pledges, which were under the command and assurance of their Alderman, the which (as I suppose) was also called a Wapentake, so named of touching the weapon or speare of their Alderman, and swearing to follow him faithfully, and serve their Prince truly: But others thinke that a Wapentake was 10. hundreds or boroghs: Likewise a Borogh, as I here use it, and as the old lawes still use, is not a Borogh towne, as

they now call it, that is a franchised towne: But a maine pledge of 100. free persons, therfore called a free borough or (as you say) Fran∣ci-plegium: For Borh in old Saxon signifieth a pledge or surety, and yet is so used with us in some speeches (as Chaucer saith) S^t Iohn to Borroh, that is for assurance and warranty.

Eudox.

I conceive the difference: But now that you have thus devided the people into these Tythings and Hundreths, how will you have them so preserved and continued, for people doe of∣ten change their dwelling places, and some must die, whilst other some doe growe up into strength of yeares, and become men.

Iren.

These Hundreds I would wish to assemble themselves once every yeare with their pledges, and to present themselves be∣fore the Iustices of the peace, which shall bee thereunto appoin∣ted, to bee surveyed and numbred, to see what change hath hap∣pened since the yeare before, and the defects to supplie, of young plants late growne up, the which are diligently to bee overlooked and viewed of what condition and demeanour they be, so as pledges may bee taken for them, and they put into order of some Tything, of all which alterations notes is to be taken, and Bookes made there∣of accordingly.

Eudox.

Now (mee thinkes) Irenaeus, you are to bee warned to take heede lest unawares you fall into that inconvenience which you formerly found fault with in others: Namely, that by this booking of them, you doe not gather them into a new head, and having broken their former strength, doe not unite them more strongly againe: For every Alderman having all these free pledges of his Hundred under his commaund, may (me thinkes) if hee be evill disposed drawe all his Companie into an evill action. And likewise by this assembling of them once a yeare unto their Al∣derman by their Weapentakes, take heede lest you also give them occasion and meanes to practise together in any conspi∣racyes.

Iren.

Neither of both is to be doubted, for their Aldermen and Head Boroughes, will not be such men of power and countenance of themselves, being to be chosen thereunto, as neede to be feared: Neither if hee were, is his Hundred at his commaund, further then his Princes service, and also every Tything man, may controll him in such a case. And as for the assembling of the Hundred, much lesse is any danger thereof to be doubted, seeing it is before some Iu∣stice of Peace, or some high Constable to bee thereunto appoin∣ted: So as of these Tythings there can no perill ensue, but a cer∣taine assurance of peace and great good, for they are thereby with∣drawne from their Lords, and subjected to the Prince: Moreover for the better breaking of these heads and septs, which (I tould you) was one of the greatest strengthes of the Irish, me thinkes it should bee very well to renewe that ould Statute, which was made in the * 1.25 raigne of Edward the fourth in Ireland, by which it

was commaunded, that whereas * 1.26 all men then used to be called by the name of their septs, according to the severall Nations, and had no surnames at all, that from thenceforth each one should take upon himselfe a severall surname, either of his trade and facultie, or of some quality of his body or minde, or of the place where he dwelt, so as every one should be distinguish∣ed from the other, or from the most part, wherby they shall not onely, not depend upon the head of their sept, as now they do, but also in time learne quite to forget his Irish Nation. And here withall would I also wish all the O's and the Mac's, which the heads of septs have taken to their names, to bee utterly forbidden and extinguished. For that the same being an ordi∣nance (as some say) first made by * 1.27 O Brien for the strengthning of the Irish, the abrogating thereof will asmuch infeeble them.

Eudox.

I like this ordinance very well; but now that you have thus divided & distinguished them, what o∣ther order will you take for their manner of life?

Iren.

The next that I will doe, shalbe to appoint to every one that is not able to live of his Free-holde, a certaine Trade of life, to which he shall finde himselfe fittest, and shalbe thought ablest, the which trade hee shalbe bound to follow, & live onely thereupon. All trades therefore are to be understood to be of three kindes; Manuall, Intellectuall, & mixed. The first containing all such as needeth exercise of bodily labour, to the performance of their profession. The second consisting only of the exercise of wit & reason. The third sort, part of bodily labor, & part of the wit, but depending most of industrie and carefulnes. Of the first sort be all handy-crafts & husbandry labour. Of the second be all Sciences, and those which be called the liberall Arts. Of the third is Merchandize & Chafferie, that is, buying & sel∣ling, & without all these three, there is no Common-wealth can al∣most consist, or at the least be perfect. But the Realme of Ireland wan∣teth the most principall of them, that is, the intellectuall; therfore in seeking to reforme her state, it is specially to be looked unto. But be∣cause by husbandry, which supplyeth unto us all things necessary for food, wherby we chiefly live. Therefore it is first to be provided for. The first thing therefore that wee are to draw these new tythed men into, ought to be husbandry. First, because it is the most easie to be learned, needing onely the labour of the Body. Next, because it is most generall and most needfull, then because it is most naturall; and lastly, because it is most enemy to warre, and most hateth unquietnes: As the Poet saith,

—bella execrata colonis.

for husbandry being the nurse of thrift, & the daughter of industrie and labour, detesteth all that may worke her scathe, and destroy the

travaile of her hands, whose hope is all her lives comfort un∣to the Plough, therefore are those Kearne, Stocaghes and Horse-boyes to bee driven and made to imploy that ablenesse of Bodie which they were wont to use to theft and villainy, hencefoorth to labour and industry. In the which, by that time they have spent but a little paine, they will finde such sweetenesse and happy contentment, that they will afterwardes hardly bee haled a∣way from it, or drawne to their wonted lewde life in theeverie and roguerie. And being once thus inured thereunto, they are not onely to bee countenanced and encouraged by all good meanes, but also provided that their children after them may be brought up likewise in the same, and succeede in the roomes of their Fathers. To which end there is a * 1.28 Statute in Ireland already well provided, which commaundeth that all the sonnes of husbandmen shall be trained up in their Fathers trades, but it is (God wot) very slenderly executed.

Eudox.

But doe you not count in this trade of husbandry, pastu∣ring of cattle, and keeping of their Cowes, for that is reckoned as a part of husbandrie.

Iren.

I know it is, and needefully to bee used, but I doe not meane to allow any of those able bodies, which are able to use bo∣dily labour, to follow a few Cowes grazeing. But such impotent persons, as being unable for strong travaile, are yet able to drive Cattle to and fro to their pasture, for this keeping of Cowes, is of it selfe a very idle life, and a fit nurserie for a Thiefe. For which cause (you remember) I disliked the Irish manner of keeping Boolies in Summer upon the mountaines, and living after that savage sort. But if they will algates feede many Cattle, or keepe them on the Mountaines, let them make some townes neare to the Mountaines side, where they may dwell together with neighbours, and bee conversant in the view of the world. And to say truth, though Ireland bee by nature coun∣ted a great soyle of pasture, yet had I rather have fewer Cowes kept, and men better mannered, then to have such huge in∣crease of Cattle, and no increase of good conditions. I would therefore wish that there were some ordinances made amongst them, that whosoever keepeth twentie Kine, should keep a Plough going, for otherwise all men would fall to pasturage, and none to husbandry, which is a great cause of this dearth now in England, and a cause of the usuall stealthes in Ireland: for looke into all Countreyes that live in such sort by keeping of Cattle, and you shall finde that they are both very barbarous and uncivill, and also greatly given to warre. The Tartarians, the Musco∣vites, the Norwegians, the Gothes, the Armenians, and many other doe witnesse the same. And therefore since now wee purpose to draw the Irish from desire of warre and tumults, to the love of peace and civility, it is expedient to abridge their great custome of

hardening, and augment their trade of tillage and husbandrie. As for other occupations and trades, they need not bee inforced to, but every man to bee bound onely to follow one that hee thinkes himselfe aptest for. For other trades of Artificers will be occupied for very necessitie, and constrayned use of them, and so likewise will merchandize for the gaine thereof, but learning and bringing 〈◊〉〈◊〉 in liberall Sciences, will not come of it selfe, but must bee drawne on with streight Lawes and ordinances: And therefore it were meete that such an act were ordained, that all the Sonnes of Lords, Gentlemen, and such others as are able to bring them up in learning, should be trayned up therein from their Child-hoods. And for that end every Parish should be forced to keepe a pettie Schoole-master, adjoyning unto the Parish Church, to bee the more in view, which should bring up their children in the first Elements of Letters: And that in every Countrey or Baronie, they should keepe an other able Schoole-master, which should instruct them in Grammer, and in * 1.29 the Principles of Sciences, to whom they should be compelled to send their youth to bee disciplined, whereby they will in short space grow up to that civile conversati∣on, that both the children will loath their former rudenesse in which they were bred, and also their Parents will even by the en∣sample of their young Children, perceive the foulenesse of their owne behaviour, compared to theirs; for Learning hath that wonderfull power in it selfe, that it can soften and temper the most sterne and savage nature.

Eudox.

Surely I am of your minde, that nothing will bring them from their uncivile life sooner, then learning and disci∣pline next after the knowledge and feare of GOD. And there∣fore I doe still expect, that you should come thereunto, and set some order for reformation of Religion, which is first to bee respected, according to the saying of CHRIST, Seeke first the King∣dome of Heaven, and the Righteousnesse thereof.

Iren:

I have in minde so to doe; but let me (I pray you) first finish that which I had in hand, whereby all the ordinances which shall afterwardes bee set for Religion, may abide the more firmely, and bee observed more diligently. Now that this people is thus tythed and ordered, and every one bound unto some ho∣nest trade of life, which shall bee particularly entered and set downe in the tything Booke, yet perhappes there will bee some

stragglers and runnagates, which will not of themselves come in and yeeld themselves to this order, and yet after the well finishing of the present warre, and establishing of the Garrisons in all strong places of the Countrey, where their wonted refuge was most, I sup∣pose there will few stand out, or if they doe, they will shortly bee brought in by the Eares: But yet afterwardes, lest any one of them should swerve, or any that is tyed to a trade, should afterwardes not follow the same, according to this institution, but should straggle up and downe the Countrey, or mich in Corners a∣mongst their Friends idlely, as Carrowes, Bardes, Iesters, and such like, I would wishe that a Provost Marshall should bee ap∣pointed in every Shire, which should continually walke about the Countrey, with halfe a dozen, or halfe a score horsemen, to take up such loose persons as they should finde thus wande∣ring, whome hee should punish by his owne authority, with such paines as the person shall seeme to deserve; for if hee be but once so taken idlely roguing, hee may punish him more lightly, as with stockes, or such like; but if hee bee found a∣gaine so loytering, hee may scourge him with whippes, or rodds, after which if hee bee againe taken, let him have the bitternesse of Marshall lawe. Likewise if any reliques of the olde rebellion bee found by any, that either have not come in and sub∣mitted themselves to the Law, or that having once come in, doe breake forth againe, and walke disorderly, let them taste of the same cuppe in Gods Name, for it was due to them for their first guilt, and now being revived by their later loosenesse, let them have their first desert, as now being found unfit to live in the Common-wealth.

Eudox.

This were a good ordinance: but mee thinkes it is an un∣necessary charge, and also unfit to continue the name or forme of any Marshall-Law, when as there is a proper Officer already appointed for these turnes, to wit the Sheriffe of the Shire, whose peculiar Of∣fice it is to walke up and downe his Bayli-wicke, as you would have a Marshall to snatch up all those Runnagates and unprofitable mem∣bers, and to bring them to his Gaole to bee punished for the same. Therefore this may well be spared.

Iren.

Not so (me thinkes) for though the Sheriffe have this au∣thority of himselfe to take up all such stragglers, and imprison them, yet shall hee not doe so much good, nor worke that terrour in the hearts of them, that a Marshall will, whom they shall know to have power of life and death in such cases, and specially to bee appoin∣ted for them: Neither doth it hinder that, but that though it per∣taine to the Sheriffe, the Sheriffe may doe therein what hee can, and yet the Marshall may walke his course besides, for both of them may doe the more good, and more terrifie the idle Rogue, knowing that though he have a watch upon the one, yet hee may light upon the other: But this proviso is needefull to bee had in this case,

that the Sheriffe may not have the like power of life, as the Marshall hath, and as heretofore they have beene accustomed; for it is dange∣rous to give power of life into the hands of him which may have be∣nefit by the parties death, as if the said loose liver have any goods of owne, the Sheriffe is to seize thereupon, whereby it hath come to passe, that some who have not deserved iudgement of death, though otherwise perhaps offending, have beene for their goods sake caught up, and carryed straight to the bough, a thing indeed very pittifull & horrible. Therefore by no meanes I would have the Sheriffe have such authority, nor yet to imprison that Lozell, till the Sessions, for so all Gaoles might soone be filled; but to send him to the Marshall, who eftsoones finding him faultie, shall give him meete correction, and ridd him away forthwith.

Eudox.

I doe now perceive your reason well: but come wee now to that whereof wee earst spake, I meane, to Religion and religious men, what order will you set amongst them?

Iren.

For Religion little have I to say, my selfe being (as I said) not professed therein, and it selfe being but one, so as there is but one way therein, for that which is true onely is, and the rest is not at all, yet in planting of Religion, thus much is needefull to bee observed, that it bee not sought forcibly to bee impressed into them with terrour and sharpe penalties, as now is the manner, but rather delivered and intimated with mildenesse and gentlenesse, so as it may not be hated before it be understood, and their professors despised and rejected. And therefore it is expedient that some discreete Ministers of their owne Countrey-men, bee first sent o∣ver amongst them, which by their meeke perswasions and instru∣ctions, as also by their sober lives and conversations, may draw them first to understand, and afterwards to imbrace the doctrine of their salvation; for if that the auncient godly Fathers, which first con∣verted them, when they were Infidells, to the Faith, were able to pull them from Idolatry and Paganisme, to the true Beliefe in CHRIST, as S. Patricke, and S. Columb, how much more easily shall godly teachers bring them to the true understanding of that which they already professed, wherein it is great wonder to see the oddes which is betweene the zeale of Popish Priests, and the Ministers of the Gospell, for they spare not to come out of Spaine, from Rome, and from Remes, by long toyle and daungerous travay∣ling hither, where they know perill of death awayteth them, and no reward or richesse is to bee found, onely to draw the people unto the Church of Rome, whereas some of our idle Ministers, having a way for credite and estimation thereby opened unto them, and having the livings of the Countrey of∣fered unto them, without paines, and without perill, will neither for the same, nor any love of God, nor zeale of Religion, nor for all the good they may doe, by winning Soules to God, bee drawne foorth from their warme neastes, to looke out into

Gods harvest, which is even ready for the sickle, and all the Fields yellow long agoe, doubtlesse those good olde godly Fathers, will (I feare mee) rise up in the day of judgement to condemne them.

Eudox.

Surely, it is great pitty Iren. that there are none chosen out of the Ministers of England, good, sober, and discreet men, which might be sent over thither to teach and instruct them, and that there is not asmuch care had of their soules, as of their Bodies, for the care of both lyeth upon the Prince.

Iren.

Were there never so many sent over, they should doe smal good till one enormity be taken from them, that is, that both they bee restrayned from sending their yong men abroad to other Vni∣versities beyond the Sea, as Remes, Doway, Lovaine, and the like, and others from abroad bee restrayned for comming into them▪ for they lurking secretly in their houses, and in corners of the Countrey, doe more hurt and hinderance to Religion with their private perswasions, then all the others can doe good with their publique instructions, & though for these latter there be a good Sta∣tute there ordained, yet the same is not executed; & as for the former there is no law, nor order for their restraint at all.

Eudox.

I marvaile it is no better looked unto, and not only this, but that also which I remember you mentioned in your abuses con∣cerning the profits and revenewes of the Lands of Fugitives in Ire∣land, which by pretence of certaine colourable conveyances are sent continually over unto them, to the comforting of them and others a∣gainst her Majestie, for which here in England there is good order ta∣ken, and why not then aswell in Ireland? For though there be no Sta∣tute there yet enacted therefore, yet might her Majestie by her onely prerogative, seize the fruites and profites of those Fugitives Lands into her handes, till they come over to testifie their true alleagi∣ance.

Iren.

Indeede shee might so doe, but the comberous times doe perhappes hinder the regard thereof, and of many other good inten∣tions.

Eudox.

But why then did they not mend it in peaceable times?

Iren.

Leave we that to their grave considerations; but proceed we forward. Next care in Religion is to build up and repayre all the ru∣ined Churches, whereof the most part lye even with the ground, and some that have bin lately repayred, are so unhandsomely pat∣ched, and thatched, that men doe even shunne the places for the uncomelinesse thereof; therefore I would wishe that there were order taken to have them built in some better forme, ac∣cording to the Churches of England; for the outward shewe (assure your selfe) doth greatly drawe the rude people to the reverencing and frequenting thereof. What ever some of our late too nice fooles say, there is nothing in the seemely forme, and

comely order of the Church. And for the keeping and continuing them, there should likewise Church-wardens of the gravest men in the parish be appointed, as they bee here in England, which should take the yearely charge both hereof, and also of the Schoole-houses which I wish to be built neere the said Churches, for maintenance of both which, it were meete that some small portion of lands were al∣lotted, sith no more Mortmaines are to be looked for.

Eudox.

Indeede (me thinkes) it would be so convenient, but when all is done, how will you have your Churches served, and your Mi∣nisters maintained▪ since the livings (as you say) are not sufficient scarce to make them gownes, much lesse to yeeld meete maintenance according to the dignity of their degree.

Iren.

There is no way to helpe that, but to lay 2. or 3. of them to∣gether, untill such time as the Countrey grow more rich and better inhabited, at which time the Tythes, and other obventions will also be more augmented and better valued: But now that we have thus gone through all the 3. sorts of trades, and set a course for their good establishment: let us (if it please you) goe next to some other neede∣full points of other publicke matters no lesse concerning the good of the Common-wealth, though but accidentally depending on the former. And first I wish that order were taken, for the cutting and opening of all places through woods, so that a wide way of the space of 100. yards might be layde open in every of them, for the safety of travellers, which use often in such perillous places to be robbed, and sometimes murdered. Next that Bridges were built upon the Rivers, and all the fordes marred and spilt, so as none might passe any other way but by those Bridges, and every Bridge to have a gate and a gate-house set thereon, whereof this good will come that no night stealths which are commonly driven in by-wayes, and by blinde fordes un∣used of any, but such like shall not be conveyed out of one country into another, as they use, but they must passe by those Bridges, where they may either be haply encountred, or easily tracked, or not suffe∣red to passe at all, by meanes of those gate-houses thereon: Also that in all straights and narrow passages, as betweene 2. boggs, or through any deepe foord, or under any mountaine side, there should be some little Fortilage, or wooden Castle set, which should keepe and com∣maund that straight, whereby any Rebells that should come into the country, might be stopped that way, or passe with great perill. More∣over that all High wayes should be fenced and shut up on both sides, leaving onely 40. foote breadth for passage, so as none should be able to passe but through the high wayes, whereby theeves and night Robbers might be the more easily pursued and encountred, when there shall be no other way to drive their stolne cattle, but therein, as I formerly declared. Further that there should bee in sundry conve∣nient places, by the high wayes, townes appointed to bee built, the which should be free Burgesses, and incorporate under Bayliffes, to be by their inhabitants well and strongly intrenched, or otherwise

fenced, with gates on each side thereof, to be shut nightly, like as there is in many places in the English pale, and all the wayes about it to be strongly shut up, so as none should passe but through those townes: To some of which it were good that the priviledge of a market were given, the rather to strengthen and inable them to their defence, for there is nothing doth sooner cause civility in any countrie then ma∣ny Market townes, by reason that people repairing often thither for their needes, will dayly see and learne civill manners of the better sort: Besides, there is nothing doth more stay and strenghthen the Country, then such corporate townes, as by proofe in many Rebel∣lious hath appeared, in which when all the countryes have swerved, the townes have stood fast, and yeelded good releife to the Souldi∣ours in all occasions of services. And lastly there is nothing doth more enrich any country or Realme, then many townes, for to them will all the people drawe and bring the fruits of their trades, aswell to make money of them, as to supply their needefull uses, and the Countrymen will also be more industrious in tillage, and rearing of all husbandry commodities, knowing that they shall have ready sale for them at those townes, and in all those townes should there be convenient Innes, erected for the lodging and harbouring of Travel∣lers, which are now oftentimes spoyled by lodging abroad in weake thatched houses, for want of such safe places to shroude them in.

Eudox.

But what profit shall your market townes reape of their market? when as each one may sell their corne and cattle abroad in the country, and make their secret bargaines amongst themselves as now I understand they use.

Iren.

Indeede Eudoxus, they doe so, and thereby no small incon∣venience doth rise to the Common-wealth, for now when any one hath stolne a Cowe or a Garron, he may secretly sell it in the coun∣try without privity of any, wheras if he brought it to a market towne it would perhaps be knowne, and the theife discovered. Therefore it were good that a straight ordinance were made, that none should buy or sell any cattle, but in some open market, (there being now market townes every where at hand,) upon a great penalty, neither should they likewise buy any corne to sell the same againe, unlesse it were to make malt thereof, for by such ingrosing and regrating wee see the dearth that now commonly raigneth here in England, to have beene caused. Hereunto also is to bee added that good ordinance, which I remember was once proclaimed throughout all Ireland. That all men should marke their cattle with an open severall marke upon their flanckes or Buttockes, so as if they happened to be stolne, they might appeare whose they were, and they which should buy them, might thereby suspect the Owner, and be warned to abstaine from buying them of a suspected person, with such an unknowne marke.

Eudox.

Surely these ordinances seeme very expedient, but spe∣cially that of free townes, of which I wonder there is so small store

in Ireland, and that in the first peopling and planting thereof, they were neglected and omitted.

Iren.

They were not omitted, for there were through all places of the Country convenient, many good townes seated, which tho∣rough that inundation of the Irish, which I first told you of, were ut∣terly wasted and defaced, of which the ruines are yet in many places to be seene, and of some no signe at all remaining, save onely their bare names, but their seates are not to be found.

Eudox.

But how then commeth it to passe, that they have never since beene recovered, nor their habitations reedified, as of the rest, which have beene no lesse spoyled and wasted.

Iren.

The cause thereof was, for that after their desolation, they were begged by Gentlemen, of the Kings, under colour to repaire them, and gather the poore reliques of the people againe together, of whom having obtained them, they were so farre from reedifying of them, as that by all meanes they have endeavoured to keepe them waste, least that being repaired, their Charters might be renewed, and their Burgesses restored to their lands, which they had now in their possession, much like as in those old monuments of Abbeyes, and re∣ligious houses, we see them likewise use to doe: For which cause it is judged that King Henry the eight, bestowed them upon them, con∣ceiving that thereby they should never bee able to rise againe. And even so doe these Lords, in these poore old corporate townes, of which I could name divers, but for kindling of displeasure. There∣fore as I wished many corporate townes to be erected, so would I a∣gaine wish them to be free, not depending upon the service, nor un∣der the commaund of any but the Governour. And being so, they will both strengthen all the Country round about them, which by their meanes will be the better replenished and enriched, and also be as continuall houldes for her Majesty, if the people should revolt or breake out againe, for without such it is easie to forrage and over-run the whole land. Let be for ensample all those Free-boroughes, in the Low-Countryes, which are now all the strength thereof. These and other like ordinances might be delivered for the good establishment of the Realme, after it is once subdued and reformed, in which it might afterwards be very easily kept and maintained, with small ca••e of the Governours and Councell there appointed, so as it should in short space, yeeld a plentifull revenue to the Crowne of England: which now doth but sucke & consume the treasure thereof, through those unsound plots and changefull orders, which are dayly devi∣sed for her good, yet never effectually prosecuted or perfor∣med.

Eudox.

But in all this your discourse I have not marked any thing by you spoken touching the appointment of the principall Of∣ficer, to whom you wish the charge and performance of all this to be committed: Onely I observed some fowle abuses by you noted in some of the late Governours, the reformation where∣of

you left of, for this present place.

Iren.

I delight not to lay open the blames of great Magistrates to the rebuke of the world, and therefore their reformation I will not meddle with, but leave unto the wisedome of greater heads to be considered, only thus much I will speake generally thereof, to satisfie your desire, that the government and cheife Magistracy, I wish to continue as it doth, to wit, that it be ruled by a Lord Deputy or Iu∣stice, for that it is a very safe kinde of rule, but there withall I wish that over him there were placed also a Lord Lieutenant, of some of the greatest personages in England, such a one I could name, upon whom the eye of all England is fixed, and our last hopes now rest, who being intituled with that dignity, and being here alwayes resi∣dent, may backe and defend the good course of that government a∣gainst all maligners, which else will through their cunning working under hand, deprave and pull backe what ever thing shall be begun or intended there, as we commonly see by experience at this day, to the utter ruine and desolation of that poore Realme, and this Leiutenan∣cie should be no discountenancing of the Lord Deputy, but rather a strengthning of all his doings, for now the cheife evill in that go∣vernment is, that no Governour is suffered to goe on with any one course, but upon the least information here, of this or that, hee is ei∣ther stopped and crossed, or other courses appointed him from hence which he shall run, which how inconvenient it is, is at this houre too well felt: And therefore this should be one principall in the appoin∣ting of the Lord Deputies authority, that it should bee more ample and absolute then it is, and that he should have uncontrouled power, to doe any thing, that he with the advisement of the Councell should thinke meete to be done: For it is not possible for the Councell here, to direct a Governour there, who shall be forced oftentimes to fol∣low the necessitie of present actions, and to take the suddaine advan∣tage of time, which being once lost will not bee recovered, whilst through expecting direction from hence, the delayes whereof are of∣tentimes through other greater affaires most irkesome, the oportu∣nityes there in the meane time passe away, and great danger often groweth, which by such timely prevention might easily bee stopped: And this (I remember) is worthily observed by Machiavel in his discourses upon Livie, where he commendeth the manner of the Ro∣mans government, in giving absolute power to all their Councellors and Governours, which if they abused, they should afterwards deare∣ly answere: And the contrary thereof he reprehendeth in the States of Venice, of Florence, and many other principalityes of Italy: who use to limit their cheife Officers so strictly, as that thereby they have oftentimes lost such happy occasions, as they could never come unto againe: The like whereof, who so hath beene conversant in that go∣vernment of Ireland, hath too often seene to their great hinderance and hurt. Therefore this I could wish to be redressed, and yet not so but that in particular things he should be restrained, though not in

the generall government, as namely in this that no offices should bee sould by the Lord Deputy for money, nor no pardons, nor no prote∣ctions bought for reward, nor no beoves taken for Captainries of Countryes, nor no shares of Bishopricks for nominating of Bishops, nor no forfeytures, nor dispensations with poenall Statutes given to their servants or friends, nor no selling of licences for transportation of prohibited wares, and specially of corne and flesh, with many the like, which neede some manner of restrainte, or else very great trust in the honorable disposition of the Lord Deputy.

Thus I have Eudoxus, as briefly as I could, and as my memorie would serve me, run through the state of that whole Country, both to let you see, what it now is, and also what it may bee by good care and amendment: Not that I take upon me to change the policy of so great a kingdome, or prescribe rules to such wise men, as have the handling thereof, but onely to shew you the evills, which in my small experience I have observed, to be the cheife hinderance of the refor∣mation, and by way of conference to declare my simple opinion for the redresse thereof, and establishing a good course for government, which I doe not deliver as a perfect plot of mine owne invention to be onely followed, but as I have learned and understood the same by the consultations and actions of very wise Governours and Councel∣lours, whom I have (sometimes) heard treate hereof: So have I thought good to set downe a remembrance of them for my owne good, and your satisfaction, that who so lift to overlooke them, al∣though perhaps much wiser then they which have thus advised of that State, yet at lest by comparison hereof, may perhaps better his owne judgment, and by the light of others fore-going him, may fol∣low after with more ease, and haply finde a fairer way thereunto, then they which have gone before.

Eudox.

I thanke you Irenaeus, for this your gentle paines, withall not forgetting now in the shutting up, to put you in minde of that which you have formerly halfe promised, that hereafter when wee shall meete againe, upon the like good occasion, you will declare un∣to us, those your observations which you have gathered of the anti∣quities of Ireland.

The end.

Notes

• * 1.1

  The originall of the very name of Scythi∣ans seemeth to come from shooting. vide Selden. annot. in Poly. olb. (ex Gorop. Becan. ••eccesel. et Alu∣vedi l••g.) pag. 122.
• * 1.2

  Not he, but Herodotus in the life of Ho∣mer.
• ** 1.3

  These fa∣milies of Mac-mahones and Mac-swines are by others held to be of the an∣cient Irish.
• * 1.4

  vide anno••. pag. praeced.
• * 1.5

  Others hould that he was be∣headed at Tre∣dagh 15. Febr. 146••. by (the command of) Iohn Tip••of•• Earle of Wor∣cester, then Lo: Deputy of Ire∣land, for ex∣acting of Coyne and Livery. vid. Ca••den. Britan. pag. 738 edit. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. an▪ 1607
• * 1.6

  The like rea∣son may be gi∣ven for the making of such Rathes in Ireland, by the Danes or Norwegians. vid. Gir. Cambr. to∣p••g. H••b. distinct. 3. cap. 37.
• * 1.7

  Trinity Colledge by Dublin, which was founded by Queene Eliz 3 Martij 159••. The 13. of the same moneth, its first stone was laide by Thomas Smyth then Mayor of Dublin, and the 9. of Ian 1593. it first admitted Students.
• * 1.8

  Consulat (s•• place••) Camden. an∣nal. rerum An∣glic. & Hiber. ad an. 1520.
• * 1.9

  The causes of these feares have been am∣putated, since the happy uni∣on of England and Scotland, established by his late Maje∣sty.
• * 1.10

  vide ••ed. Ec∣cles. Hist. lib. 1. cap. 1.
• * 1.11

  In Richard Creagh's booke de lingua Hibernica, there is a very plentifull collection of Irish words, derived from the Brit∣tish or Welch tongue, which doth much strengthen the Au∣thors opinion, in houlding that the B••rnes, Tooles, and Cavenaghs, with other the ancient inhabi∣tants of the easterne parts, were originally Brittish Colonyes. vid▪ pag. 32 & 33.
• * 1.12

  Dermot Mac Murrogh King of Leinster, who was surnamed also ni-Gall, as being a friend to the English, and a cheife instru∣ment in inciting them to the conquest of Ireland.
• * 1.13

  o•• O-Birn••.
• * 1.14

  vide Camdeni annales, sub se∣nem anni 1594.
• * 1.15

  This carrieth no fit proporti∣on for the transplantati∣on intended by the Author, considering the large extent of Vlster, and the narrow bounds heere limited.
• * 1.16

  This is now part of the Countie of London-derry.
• * 1.17

  The County of Clare was anciently ac∣counted part of the Province of Mounster, whence it hath the name of Tuadmuan, or Thomond, which signifieth north Mounster, and hath at this day its peculiar Governour, as being exemp∣ted from the Presidencies of Mounster and Connaght.
• * 1.18

  This is part of the county of Wexford.
• * 1.19

  De bis qui plura scire avet, consulat D. Hen Spelmanni eq. aur. Archaeolo∣gum, in Borshol∣der & Hundred.
• * 1.20

  Livie speaking of Romulus hath it thus, Populū in curias 30. di∣visit, &c. Eodem tempore & cen∣turiae tres equi∣tum conscriptae sunt. And so we have it in Sex∣tus Aurel. Vi∣ctor's booke, de viris illustribus urbis Romae. Tres equitum centurias insti∣tuit (saith he) Plebem in tri∣ginta curias di∣stribuit.
• * 1.21

  Richard ••he 2.
• * 1.22

  This service was performed by Sir Richard Edgecomb, being appointed thereunto by a speci∣all commission from K. Henry the seventh. There is yet extant an exact diary of all his procee∣dings therein, from his first landing at Kinsale the 27^th of Iune 1488. till his departure from Dublin the 30^th of Iuly next.
• * 1.23

  What Coigny and Livery doe signifie, is for∣merly expressed see pag. 24. Sorehon was a tax laide upon the Free-hol∣ders, for cer∣taine dayes in each quarter of a yeare, to finde victualls, and lodging, and ••o pay cer∣taine stipends, to the Kerne, Galloglasses, and horsemen.
• * 1.24

  Cantred is a Brittish word, answering to the Saxon Hundred. How much land a Cantred containeth, is variously delivered. Some hould that it containes 100. townes. So Gir. Barry or Cambrensis, in his itinerary of Wales, (lib. 2. cap. 7.) Dicitur au∣tem Cantredu•• (saith he) composito vocabulo tam Britannica quam Hibernica lingua, tanta terrae portio, quanta 100. villas contineta solet. The Author here ci••es a record which makes it containe but 30. towne-lands: and Iohn Clynn, (if my copy therein be not mistaken) hath but 20. But another more auncient MS. some∣time belonging to the Friars Minors of Multifernan, hath 30. Qualibet cantreda (saith Clinne) continet xx. (al. xxx.) villatas terrae, quaelibet villata potest sustinere 300 vaccas in pascuis, it•• quod vaccae in x. (al. 1111.) partes divisae, nulla alteri appropinqua∣bit, quaelibet villata continet viii. carucatas. We finde also there the Provinces of Ireland thus divided into Cantreds. Vltonia continet 35. cantredas, Conacia 30. Lagenia 31. M••dia 18. & Mo∣monia 70. See more concerning cantreds in Sir Hen. Spelman's excellent Glossary. As cantreds are diversly estimated, so are also carues or plowlands.
• * 1.25

  An. 5. Edw 4.
• * 1.26

  The statute referres onely to the Irish, dwelling among the English in the counties of Dublin, Meth, Vriel, and Kildare▪ Vriel called also Ergallia, did ancient∣ly comprehend all that countrey which is now divided into the Counties of Louth and Mono∣ghan although it may be concei∣ved, that Louth was onely in∣tend••d by the statute, because Monoghan was then (in a man∣ner) wholly possessed by the Irish.
• * 1.27

  The custome of prefixing the vowell O to many of the chiefe Irish surnames, began soon after the yeere M. in the raigne of Brien boroma (the son of Kenne∣thy) King of Ireland, As for Mac in surnames, it beareth no o∣ther signification, then Fitz doth among the French, and (from them) the English, and ap with the Welsh. And although it were more anciently used then the o∣ther, yet it varied according to the fathers name, and became not so soone fully settled in families.
• * 1.28

  Anno 25^o Hen. 6.
• * 1.29

  How requi∣site also an U∣niversitie is for the further growth in learning, the judicious well know. This happinesse we now enjoy, to the great benefit of this Land. And although former attempts have beene made for erecting and establishing Vniversities in Ireland, yet through want of meanes, which should have beene allotted for their mainte∣nance, they have soone faded. So hapned it with that Acade∣my which Alexander de B••gnor Archbishop of Dublin erected (in S. Patricks Church) in Dublin, and procured to be confir∣med by Pope Iohn the ••2^th. And no better succeeded that which was afterwards erected at Tredagh by Act of Parlament Anno 5. Edw. 4. (as appeares in the roll of that yeare in the Chauncery) whereby all the like Priviledges, as the Vniversity of Oxford (in England) enjoyed, were conferred u∣pon it. Besides these wee finde mention of others, farre more ancient, as at Armagh, and Ross. Carbry, or Ross. atlithry, as it is called in the life of S. Faghnan the Founder, who lived in the yeare 590. Ipse Sanctus (saith the Author) in australi Hibernia plagâ iuxta mare, in suo Monasterio quod ipse funda∣vit, ibi crevit civitas, in quâ semper manet magnum studium sco∣larium, quod dicitur Rossailithry, habitabat. But a further search were fit to bee made touching those of the elder times.